Comments on: An Open Letter to the Creators of Sexist Fantasy and Comic Book Art http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/ A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists Mon, 20 May 2013 00:42:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Marie Brennan http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-13045 Marie Brennan Mon, 08 Apr 2013 02:37:36 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-13045 Human -- nice try, but telling women not to take offense at things which have a real detrimental consequence on their lives won't get you very far. This is not about the "immorality" of the female body; it's about the distortion and objectification of that body, promoting a physical ideal few women can match (but will pursue with surgery and eating disorders) when it isn't crossing the line into Lovecraftian horror. It's about a single ideal of beauty, rather than allowing for a range. It's about women being sexy first and everything else after. If you troubled to follow the links and read the discussions, you might understand that better. Human — nice try, but telling women not to take offense at things which have a real detrimental consequence on their lives won’t get you very far. This is not about the “immorality” of the female body; it’s about the distortion and objectification of that body, promoting a physical ideal few women can match (but will pursue with surgery and eating disorders) when it isn’t crossing the line into Lovecraftian horror. It’s about a single ideal of beauty, rather than allowing for a range. It’s about women being sexy first and everything else after. If you troubled to follow the links and read the discussions, you might understand that better.

]]> By: Human http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-13043 Human Sun, 07 Apr 2013 22:14:41 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-13043 Perhaps, and this is a just a thought, but perhaps you're taking this a bit too seriously. I'd argue that art including the female form can actually have the opposite effect on people. The female form is beautiful to look at whether distorted, hidden, exposed, etc. For me, viewing the female form always has a certain aire of appreciation for it, a reverence if you will. Many people see the exposed or flaunted female form as offensive and even immoral because of the stigma imposed upon by a select few groups of people within this patriarchal overly religious society we live in. The world would be a much better place if people stopped taking offense to every little thing. Perhaps, and this is a just a thought, but perhaps you’re taking this a bit too seriously. I’d argue that art including the female form can actually have the opposite effect on people.

The female form is beautiful to look at whether distorted, hidden, exposed, etc. For me, viewing the female form always has a certain aire of appreciation for it, a reverence if you will.

Many people see the exposed or flaunted female form as offensive and even immoral because of the stigma imposed upon by a select few groups of people within this patriarchal overly religious society we live in.

The world would be a much better place if people stopped taking offense to every little thing.

]]> By: Marie Brennan http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-12926 Marie Brennan Fri, 15 Mar 2013 06:42:43 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-12926 Cathy -- There are a lot of reasons a book can wind up with a bland cover, up to and including "the piece of art the publisher commissioned turned out so badly, they had no choice but to throw something together from stock art in an afternoon." It doesn't always reflect badly on the story. But I know what you mean about that sort of thing blurring together until it's all indistinguishable. Cathy — There are a lot of reasons a book can wind up with a bland cover, up to and including “the piece of art the publisher commissioned turned out so badly, they had no choice but to throw something together from stock art in an afternoon.” It doesn’t always reflect badly on the story. But I know what you mean about that sort of thing blurring together until it’s all indistinguishable.

]]> By: cathy http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-12919 cathy Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:31:25 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-12919 Cover art definitely makes a difference when I'm choosing a book. I decided a few years ago when every other fantasy book had a scowly tattooed leather clad woman on the front that I wouldn't be buying any more of them. I don't even read the backs to see what I'm missing. My theory is that if publishers can't be bothered to come up with something even vaguely original then they can't possibly have much faith in the books. The only exception to my rule is Patricia Briggs and only because I read her before the trend started. And even then I make fun of the covers. (They're pretty, but not Mercy.) Overly sexed up covers get an eyeroll and a pass, and I'm including graphic novels there. I don't mind sexy, but gratuitous fan service is annoying. (I read a lot of manga - I know all about fan service for the guys.) I do, however, like the comic Empowered. The character (Empowered) was born out of the artist's frequent commissions for super hero ladies in bondage, and it's hard to explain to people without raised eyebrows but it's really really well done. Her super powers come from her suit, which rips very easily so she gets kidnapped a lot. She's smart, brave and sweet which is balanced by an absolute lack of confidence in herself. Watching the character grow over 7 (I think) books has been fun and the plots range from silly to incredibly emotional. It's very sexy but not dumbed down and the pure cheesecake parts are usually tempered by humour. I read a lot of reviews before picking it up though - usually Emp is on the cover in a tattered costume. :) Cover art definitely makes a difference when I’m choosing a book. I decided a few years ago when every other fantasy book had a scowly tattooed leather clad woman on the front that I wouldn’t be buying any more of them. I don’t even read the backs to see what I’m missing. My theory is that if publishers can’t be bothered to come up with something even vaguely original then they can’t possibly have much faith in the books. The only exception to my rule is Patricia Briggs and only because I read her before the trend started. And even then I make fun of the covers. (They’re pretty, but not Mercy.)

Overly sexed up covers get an eyeroll and a pass, and I’m including graphic novels there. I don’t mind sexy, but gratuitous fan service is annoying. (I read a lot of manga – I know all about fan service for the guys.)

I do, however, like the comic Empowered. The character (Empowered) was born out of the artist’s frequent commissions for super hero ladies in bondage, and it’s hard to explain to people without raised eyebrows but it’s really really well done. Her super powers come from her suit, which rips very easily so she gets kidnapped a lot. She’s smart, brave and sweet which is balanced by an absolute lack of confidence in herself. Watching the character grow over 7 (I think) books has been fun and the plots range from silly to incredibly emotional. It’s very sexy but not dumbed down and the pure cheesecake parts are usually tempered by humour. I read a lot of reviews before picking it up though – usually Emp is on the cover in a tattered costume. :)

]]> By: Marie Brennan http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-12917 Marie Brennan Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:28:05 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-12917 Allan -- It sells to <i>some</i> people. But how many readers/players/etc are buying those properties because this kind of art actively makes them want it? How many of them see it as neutral, not affecting their decision one way or another? How many are buying those things <i>despite</i> the art? And how many are actively driven away by it? We don't have solid stats, but it is well-established that a great many women (and a smaller, but non-zero, number of men) straight-out dislike this stuff, and stay away from superhero comics/certain types of video games/etc as a result. By pushing this kind of aesthetic, companies are losing that audience, and it's unclear that the audience they gain in return (the people for whom the art is a clear selling point; they wouldn't buy it <i>without</i> that art) is large enough to counterbalance that loss. Allan — It sells to some people. But how many readers/players/etc are buying those properties because this kind of art actively makes them want it? How many of them see it as neutral, not affecting their decision one way or another? How many are buying those things despite the art? And how many are actively driven away by it?

We don’t have solid stats, but it is well-established that a great many women (and a smaller, but non-zero, number of men) straight-out dislike this stuff, and stay away from superhero comics/certain types of video games/etc as a result. By pushing this kind of aesthetic, companies are losing that audience, and it’s unclear that the audience they gain in return (the people for whom the art is a clear selling point; they wouldn’t buy it without that art) is large enough to counterbalance that loss.

]]> By: Allan http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-12916 Allan Mon, 11 Mar 2013 05:10:02 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-12916 Its boring? It sells. Enough said. Its boring? It sells. Enough said.

]]> By: Linky roundup | Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-12903 Linky roundup | Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Tue, 05 Mar 2013 13:21:06 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-12903 [...] An Open Letter to the Creators of Sexist Fantasy and Comic Book Art. [...] [...] An Open Letter to the Creators of Sexist Fantasy and Comic Book Art. [...]

]]> By: Linkspam, 3/1/13 Edition — Radish Reviews http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-12894 Linkspam, 3/1/13 Edition — Radish Reviews Fri, 01 Mar 2013 11:31:44 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-12894 [...] An Open Letter to the Creators of Sexist Fantasy and Comic Book Art [...] [...] An Open Letter to the Creators of Sexist Fantasy and Comic Book Art [...]

]]> By: Marie Brennan http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-12893 Marie Brennan Thu, 28 Feb 2013 22:07:59 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-12893 Mary -- I think the "body paint" look came out of the conjunction between two factors. The first is that it simplifies matters (if you know how to draw anatomy, you're set; you don't have to worry about how fabric layers over that), and the second is that it allows the artist to show off the idealized body of the subject. In that latter sense, I don't really mind it so much; what bothers me is the type of idealization so often applied to superheroines. Mary — I think the “body paint” look came out of the conjunction between two factors. The first is that it simplifies matters (if you know how to draw anatomy, you’re set; you don’t have to worry about how fabric layers over that), and the second is that it allows the artist to show off the idealized body of the subject. In that latter sense, I don’t really mind it so much; what bothers me is the type of idealization so often applied to superheroines.

]]> By: Mary Louise Eklund http://www.sfnovelists.com/2013/02/16/an-open-letter-to-the-creators-of-sexist-fantasy-and-comic-book-art/#comment-12891 Mary Louise Eklund Thu, 28 Feb 2013 16:25:22 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/?p=9291#comment-12891 Yes the poses are becoming so cliched that they it's boring. I know there's a website about boobs don't work that way. I think one needs to be started - spandex doesn't a fit that way for both men and women. It seems artist think spandex is just color body paint to cover up nudes- uh no it wrinkles gathers and binds just like any fabric- happens to be more form fitting than most. So I think pointing out the cliches, gathering them together, and showing the lack of creativity will hopefully inspire real creativity - or at least inspire the oncoming group of artists to make their own mistakes. Yes the poses are becoming so cliched that they it’s boring. I know there’s a website about boobs don’t work that way. I think one needs to be started – spandex doesn’t a fit that way for both men and women. It seems artist think spandex is just color body paint to cover up nudes- uh no it wrinkles gathers and binds just like any fabric- happens to be more form fitting than most. So I think pointing out the cliches, gathering them together, and showing the lack of creativity will hopefully inspire real creativity – or at least inspire the oncoming group of artists to make their own mistakes.

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