If you look at the historical context, though, the details of Puritan behavior you cite appear rather different. Beer was a necessity of life; it was often safer to drink than water, as the alcohol helped kill germs. So they probably didn’t build a brewery just so they coudl kick back with a cold one on a Friday night. And with “be fruitful and multiply” as a Biblical injunction, one instance of a husband failing to do his holy duty by his wife doesn’t mean the Puritans were a sex-positive culture.

As for the modern day, I’m not sure what “subculture” you see that hates Christians. But that’s a subject that is probably beyond the scope of the SF Novelists blog, so I’ll leave it at that.

The gender question you raise being more on-topic, I’ll answer it by saying that I don’t know anybody who measures women against men as a standard, nor who feels “forced” to live up to that model; the focus is much more on opportunity, freedom, fair rewards, safety, legal rights, and other such things that are major factors in happiness. Where those are concerned, we’ve definitely come a long way — but there’s still a long way to go.

Puritans are badly misunderstood by a subculture which hates christians. Long story short, puritans loved their beer (they were very quick to build a brewery when they landed) and in one well known incident, invoked church discipline on a husband who wasn’t, er, “serving” his wife enough in the bedroom when she complained. If that doesn’t shatter your preconceptions, I don’t know what will. The modern day christian is badly misunderstood too. And all I can say is, when you talk about us like we’re not in the room, we can still hear you. If you have questions about why we’re so weird, you could ask us instead of talking about us like we’re the bad kid of the family…

Elias’ comment got me thinking. In a post-modern culture in which there is no objective measure of value, how can you say that women have come a long way simply by measuring them up against men? How are women more liberated by forcing them to live up to an arbitrary standard of manliness? It’s my contention that in such a culture, there is no progress, there is only change. Why isn’t happiness the standard?

Truly bizarre.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/2/21/836696/-Without-a-clutch

A piece talking about the economy and changing gender roles, related directly to the Super Bowl ad that sparked this column in the first place.

For the Anglo-philes, I encourage a viewing of ‘Prime Suspects,’ made in the ’90s and show casing very real depictions of sexism and misogyny. The idea that this is an exclusively American, Christian, or even a Puritan-rooted problem is another generalization that fixes the blame but not the problem.

Our society, like countless others, in attitudes of equality in cultural mediums, is constantly in flux. We had break out advances in attitudes toward women in the ’60s and ’70s, reflected in popular movies and books. Only to see a huge backlash in the ’80s. I was fond of blaming this on Regan; as I blame most things on Regan. Including jock itch. Then a professor at university hipped me to the notion that Regan didn’t steal the throne in a singular power grab, any more than Hitler seized Germany by spear and magic helmet, nor did Gandhi seized leadership of India through some arcane power; she’d been thrown out of office before. These men and woman were chosen and supported in their actions by the majority in their nations.

Same thing in popular entertainment. Like politics, we advance and then scared little men (and occasionally, some scared little women too) regress and run for something safe. Some sheltering, familiar, generalization that takes them off the hook of personal responsibility and uncomfortable growth. For you consideration: ‘Mr and Mrs Smith,’ did nowhere near the business that ‘True Lies,’ did.

As I prepare to adopt an 8 year old boy and a 4 year old girl, I’m ready for ‘You’ve come a long way, baby,’ to be more than an out-dated, tongue in cheek, pitch to sell to women a product. How far women have come should be measured in acheivements and characterizations; good, bad, and ugly.

As for the romantic equation, that goes back to the ‘what good is she?’ argument. We will NEVER have stories that include men/women, gay/straight, and majority/minority functioning as equal participants until:

1. we insist that our little books, scripts, etc be received without sex-tinkering and

2. we insist on the same in the books/movies/TV we consume

Excellent topic, as always, Ms. Brennan

While I disagree on the cause, I agree with you that there are serious consequences to the attitude.

peacerenity — If we could find some happy balance where we treat it as special without it also being half Forbidden Fruit, half Holy Grail, I would not complain. As it stands, I feel like we get the worst of both worlds: it’s treated like the world’s most important goal that you shouldn’t be trying to achieve. And so you end up with lots of negative side-effects, all over the playing field of gender relations — like the sense that sex is something women owe to men and yet our value as people is decreased if we give it away, or that men are not really men if they’re not getting any, etc. Those are consequences I’m not personally willing to grin and bear.

people make a big deal about the casual european attitude towards sex, but personally, i think this is a case of the grass is greener on the other side. i dont want my society to have the exact same attitude towards sex that my college does. there’s a time for sowing your wild oats, and there’s a time to realize that what you do and who you do it with does matter. i hope i don’t ever live in an america where saying “i had sex last night” is greeted with a shrug.

so in summary, no i dont like the weird forbidden nature of sex in america, but im willing to grin and bear it for the special nature that it lends sex.

Our culture depends on addiction, whether it’s brand loyalty, greed (in consumer culture, salaries, or bigger, better houses that we don’t need and can’t afford), power, or real addiction to drugs both legal and illegal. Part of the draw of addiction is that it’s bad but it’s oh so good. That kind of thing.