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	<title>Comments on: Our Books, Warts and All</title>
	<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/</link>
	<description>A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: David B. Coe</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7390</link>
		<author>David B. Coe</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7390</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Doug.  This has been a terrific discussion.  I'm grateful to you for your thoughtful comments and their tone.  We just have to remember:  All generalizations are bad.  Oh, wait a minute.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Doug.  This has been a terrific discussion.  I&#8217;m grateful to you for your thoughtful comments and their tone.  We just have to remember:  All generalizations are bad.  Oh, wait a minute&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Hulick</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7388</link>
		<author>Doug Hulick</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7388</guid>
		<description>Elias: No insult taken whatsoever. I'm glad for your posts, since they clearly got us both to think, and that is one of the best things you can accomplish in these exchanges. And yes, I agree that works produced in the same span of time can vary widely in quality. This was one of the cores of my argument, although I tended towards the more positive end in my assumptions.

David: Very valid point. Not everyone puts their heart and soul into a work, just as not everyone slaps it out in hopes of a bit o' jingle landing in their pocket. I was trying to point out Elias' error in generalization and ended up making one of my own. Ah well. Thanks for catching me out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elias: No insult taken whatsoever. I&#8217;m glad for your posts, since they clearly got us both to think, and that is one of the best things you can accomplish in these exchanges. And yes, I agree that works produced in the same span of time can vary widely in quality. This was one of the cores of my argument, although I tended towards the more positive end in my assumptions.</p>
<p>David: Very valid point. Not everyone puts their heart and soul into a work, just as not everyone slaps it out in hopes of a bit o&#8217; jingle landing in their pocket. I was trying to point out Elias&#8217; error in generalization and ended up making one of my own. Ah well. Thanks for catching me out.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Coe</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7387</link>
		<author>David B. Coe</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7387</guid>
		<description>No problem, Elias.  Thanks for understanding.  As an author who works hard on his books, I appreciate your passion.  But I do agree with the other commenter who maintained that most writers pour their hearts and souls into their work.  Some of what they produce appeals to one person and not another, and vise versa.  But as you say, fighting the good fight is the key.  Good luck with your work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem, Elias.  Thanks for understanding.  As an author who works hard on his books, I appreciate your passion.  But I do agree with the other commenter who maintained that most writers pour their hearts and souls into their work.  Some of what they produce appeals to one person and not another, and vise versa.  But as you say, fighting the good fight is the key.  Good luck with your work.</p>
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		<title>By: Elias McClellan</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7385</link>
		<author>Elias McClellan</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:49:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7385</guid>
		<description>Mr. Coe, I of course acquiesce to your better angels.  I let my argument get the better of me and I did fail to hold my tongue.

I'm on book two and I recognize and respect the difficulty in writing a book.  Which was the basis of my original comment.  I take issue with those I perceive as going through the motions or applying formula for sake of expedience.  The writers I respect are the ones who craft their work; brilliant success or beautiful failure.   It's what I strive for and why I take every rejection letter on the chin.  

I've learned to fight the good-fight from those authors.  They seem to remember that their book is not selling in some mystical land.  The check-fairy isn't dropping the coin in their hand.  The books are going out to someone who is coming across the counter with hard-earned jack.  

Still, excuses and arguments aside, I offend and I apologize.  Thank you for your patience and consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Coe, I of course acquiesce to your better angels.  I let my argument get the better of me and I did fail to hold my tongue.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m on book two and I recognize and respect the difficulty in writing a book.  Which was the basis of my original comment.  I take issue with those I perceive as going through the motions or applying formula for sake of expedience.  The writers I respect are the ones who craft their work; brilliant success or beautiful failure.   It&#8217;s what I strive for and why I take every rejection letter on the chin.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve learned to fight the good-fight from those authors.  They seem to remember that their book is not selling in some mystical land.  The check-fairy isn&#8217;t dropping the coin in their hand.  The books are going out to someone who is coming across the counter with hard-earned jack.  </p>
<p>Still, excuses and arguments aside, I offend and I apologize.  Thank you for your patience and consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Coe</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7382</link>
		<author>David B. Coe</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7382</guid>
		<description>Elias, thanks for your comments.  You may be right about me outgrowing the books, although as I've said, I still think they're wonderful.  I'm just finding that I see flaws now that I missed before.  

As for the comment above, I think it would be best if we refrained from criticizing the books of authors who aren't necessarily visiting the site and having the opportunity to defend themselves.  Writing a book isn't easy, and while you didn't enjoy the book in question, and are absolutely entitled to your opinion, I know that others have read and loved those same works.  Perhaps this is the point of my post:  We all have opinions.  We all see flaws in certain books.  And no book is perfect.  So maybe we have to be more generous in our assessments and look for the good rather than fixating on the imperfections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elias, thanks for your comments.  You may be right about me outgrowing the books, although as I&#8217;ve said, I still think they&#8217;re wonderful.  I&#8217;m just finding that I see flaws now that I missed before.  </p>
<p>As for the comment above, I think it would be best if we refrained from criticizing the books of authors who aren&#8217;t necessarily visiting the site and having the opportunity to defend themselves.  Writing a book isn&#8217;t easy, and while you didn&#8217;t enjoy the book in question, and are absolutely entitled to your opinion, I know that others have read and loved those same works.  Perhaps this is the point of my post:  We all have opinions.  We all see flaws in certain books.  And no book is perfect.  So maybe we have to be more generous in our assessments and look for the good rather than fixating on the imperfections.</p>
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		<title>By: Elias McClellan</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7380</link>
		<author>Elias McClellan</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7380</guid>
		<description>Mr. Coe, there are a couple of things I re-read every couple of years to see if I've grown any.  I think maybe you've outgrown either the premiss or the language but may still appreciate the other.  Or, you hate the hair-styles and clothes on the cover art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Coe, there are a couple of things I re-read every couple of years to see if I&#8217;ve grown any.  I think maybe you&#8217;ve outgrown either the premiss or the language but may still appreciate the other.  Or, you hate the hair-styles and clothes on the cover art.</p>
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		<title>By: Elias McClellan</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7379</link>
		<author>Elias McClellan</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7379</guid>
		<description>Mr. Hulick, I see and conceed your point on my sweeping generality.  That stated, I will prove both our points and gesture toward Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert contrasting with Karen Traviss.  All three knock out a book, roughly, every year.  KJA and BH also have/had the benefits of notes and outlines provided by the great Frank Herbert.  As I've telegraphed my punch, I won't pull it.  There books suck weasels.  

By contrast, KT works under what I can only imagine to be draconian conditions with Lucas Licensing.  *Note, I wouldn't object to working under the same. Shameless pitch now concluded.* Yet her work is  superior, in imagination, character development, and in simple (or not) turn of phrase.

Again, if I offended, I apologize.  This is a venue of ideas and opinions.  Mine, are just as intitled to being wrong as yours.  Thank you for provoking me to think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Hulick, I see and conceed your point on my sweeping generality.  That stated, I will prove both our points and gesture toward Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert contrasting with Karen Traviss.  All three knock out a book, roughly, every year.  KJA and BH also have/had the benefits of notes and outlines provided by the great Frank Herbert.  As I&#8217;ve telegraphed my punch, I won&#8217;t pull it.  There books suck weasels.  </p>
<p>By contrast, KT works under what I can only imagine to be draconian conditions with Lucas Licensing.  *Note, I wouldn&#8217;t object to working under the same. Shameless pitch now concluded.* Yet her work is  superior, in imagination, character development, and in simple (or not) turn of phrase.</p>
<p>Again, if I offended, I apologize.  This is a venue of ideas and opinions.  Mine, are just as intitled to being wrong as yours.  Thank you for provoking me to think.</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Coe</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7378</link>
		<author>David B. Coe</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7378</guid>
		<description>Great comment, Andrew.  I should say, though, that despite the flaws I see in these classic books, I'm not at all convinced that I can do better.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comment, Andrew.  I should say, though, that despite the flaws I see in these classic books, I&#8217;m not at all convinced that I can do better&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew A. A.</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7371</link>
		<author>Andrew A. A.</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7371</guid>
		<description>I have a goal to write books that can be read on the plane from LA to NY. Or that sit next to the toilet, pages wrinkled by moisture and splattered by toothpaste.

Gramatically I am a Cixelysd(dyslexic) ADD moron who can obsess over a line for hours and still not see the mechanical mistakes I have littered throughout. It seems to take me twice as long to write anything than it does for others. So perhaps my goals reflect the way I write, or read, depending on where my psychological problems lay(lie, ly, lied, layed, ach!).

After Mr. Coe's amazing little thought provoking diddy, I now have a new goal! I want to write a book that someone considers a cult classic, at least in their mind, and years later they read it again and say, "Hey, I can do better than that!" And they do...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a goal to write books that can be read on the plane from LA to NY. Or that sit next to the toilet, pages wrinkled by moisture and splattered by toothpaste.</p>
<p>Gramatically I am a Cixelysd(dyslexic) ADD moron who can obsess over a line for hours and still not see the mechanical mistakes I have littered throughout. It seems to take me twice as long to write anything than it does for others. So perhaps my goals reflect the way I write, or read, depending on where my psychological problems lay(lie, ly, lied, layed, ach!).</p>
<p>After Mr. Coe&#8217;s amazing little thought provoking diddy, I now have a new goal! I want to write a book that someone considers a cult classic, at least in their mind, and years later they read it again and say, &#8220;Hey, I can do better than that!&#8221; And they do&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David B. Coe</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7365</link>
		<author>David B. Coe</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 02:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/23/our-books-warts-and-all/#comment-7365</guid>
		<description>Doug, I'm sorry that I missed your comment before -- mine posted after yours did, though I wrote it before yours went up.

Every writer's process is unique.  I take far longer than many of my friends to write a book, and, as you say, that is no indication of the relative quality of the finished works, or of the care, passion, and effort that went into the actual writing.  Writing a book is hard -- any of us who has tried it knows this is true.  We shouldn't judge books or authors based on how quickly they write or how many books they produce, any more than we should on the basis of the genre in which they write.

I'm not sure that this means, though, that some writers don't take more care with their work than others.  I would like to think that all published authors write the best book they can, but I've seen enough to know that it's not always true.  There is no simple causal relationship -- short writing time and lots of publications does not necessarily mean the work is crap, nor is the opposite true.  But not all books are born of the same level of effort, and I do believe that one can discern that difference in quality upon reading the works in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug, I&#8217;m sorry that I missed your comment before &#8212; mine posted after yours did, though I wrote it before yours went up.</p>
<p>Every writer&#8217;s process is unique.  I take far longer than many of my friends to write a book, and, as you say, that is no indication of the relative quality of the finished works, or of the care, passion, and effort that went into the actual writing.  Writing a book is hard &#8212; any of us who has tried it knows this is true.  We shouldn&#8217;t judge books or authors based on how quickly they write or how many books they produce, any more than we should on the basis of the genre in which they write.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that this means, though, that some writers don&#8217;t take more care with their work than others.  I would like to think that all published authors write the best book they can, but I&#8217;ve seen enough to know that it&#8217;s not always true.  There is no simple causal relationship &#8212; short writing time and lots of publications does not necessarily mean the work is crap, nor is the opposite true.  But not all books are born of the same level of effort, and I do believe that one can discern that difference in quality upon reading the works in question.</p>
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