Comments on: Age-appropriate http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/ A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:26:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Marie Brennan http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7978 Marie Brennan Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:57:19 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7978 peacerenity: I think the one time my mother put her foot down regarding my library selections was when (at whatever tender age; I was in elementary school) I tried to walk out with books on medieval witchcraft. Given how I reacted when I read about the Inquisition in college, she made the right choice. Parents should definitely stay engaged with their kids' choices, but yeah -- I don't think you build moral values by trying to keep your kids ignorant of the stuff that's out there. Better to discuss things, and thereby try to make sure "what disturbs them and what doesn't" is a set of fields you can live with. peacerenity: I think the one time my mother put her foot down regarding my library selections was when (at whatever tender age; I was in elementary school) I tried to walk out with books on medieval witchcraft. Given how I reacted when I read about the Inquisition in college, she made the right choice.

Parents should definitely stay engaged with their kids’ choices, but yeah — I don’t think you build moral values by trying to keep your kids ignorant of the stuff that’s out there. Better to discuss things, and thereby try to make sure “what disturbs them and what doesn’t” is a set of fields you can live with.

]]> By: peacerenity http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7963 peacerenity Mon, 25 Jan 2010 00:12:43 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7963 I agree with Daemon. I think a lot of parents focus too much on the idea of what a kid should be able to handle and not enough on what they were actually like at that age. for example, when i was in fourth grade (so about 9 or 10 i guess), pretty much every guy in the grade already knew at least the basics of sex, let alone violence. when i was in second grade, the animorphs books were all the rage with my classmates, and those have violence aplenty, albeit none of it too graphic. once your child reaches a certain age, about 10 or 11 or so, i dont think you should censor anything unless its powerful enough to affect you, an adult (like sex fetishes or something like that), and even then you have to think carefully about it, because making something the forbidden fruit just makes them want to read it more. anything your kid is going to be reading pales in comparison to what they see on the internet or have been told by their friends. at a certain point a parent has to accept the fact that their job has ceased to be protecting their child's innocence and has become instilling a strong set of moral values, which involves allowing them to choose for themselves what disturbs them and what doesn't. I agree with Daemon. I think a lot of parents focus too much on the idea of what a kid should be able to handle and not enough on what they were actually like at that age. for example, when i was in fourth grade (so about 9 or 10 i guess), pretty much every guy in the grade already knew at least the basics of sex, let alone violence. when i was in second grade, the animorphs books were all the rage with my classmates, and those have violence aplenty, albeit none of it too graphic.

once your child reaches a certain age, about 10 or 11 or so, i dont think you should censor anything unless its powerful enough to affect you, an adult (like sex fetishes or something like that), and even then you have to think carefully about it, because making something the forbidden fruit just makes them want to read it more.

anything your kid is going to be reading pales in comparison to what they see on the internet or have been told by their friends. at a certain point a parent has to accept the fact that their job has ceased to be protecting their child’s innocence and has become instilling a strong set of moral values, which involves allowing them to choose for themselves what disturbs them and what doesn’t.

]]> By: Atsiko http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7441 Atsiko Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:34:44 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7441 I've always been a "precocious" reader. And I read fast. When I was a kid, I would constantly be begging my parents to take me to the library, or--preferably--the bookstore. I remember some serious stuff I read when I was 9 and 10. I would read a lot of my parents' books as well. And I couldn't believe some of the stuff they let me read. Eleven year-olds having (implied) sex with 15-year-olds and stuff much more squicky. I don't think it was too mature for me, but to my little ten-year-old mind, my parents were totally falling down on the job. I couldn't believe it. And they had read a lot of these books. They couldn't *not* know what was in there. Overall, I think parenting is important, but even parents who think they are very informed about their children under-estimate them. On the whole. In general. Obviously, they *over-*estimate some kids. Children are not that innocent. They're just afraid to let the parent know it. I’ve always been a “precocious” reader. And I read fast. When I was a kid, I would constantly be begging my parents to take me to the library, or–preferably–the bookstore. I remember some serious stuff I read when I was 9 and 10. I would read a lot of my parents’ books as well. And I couldn’t believe some of the stuff they let me read. Eleven year-olds having (implied) sex with 15-year-olds and stuff much more squicky.

I don’t think it was too mature for me, but to my little ten-year-old mind, my parents were totally falling down on the job. I couldn’t believe it. And they had read a lot of these books. They couldn’t *not* know what was in there.

Overall, I think parenting is important, but even parents who think they are very informed about their children under-estimate them. On the whole. In general. Obviously, they *over-*estimate some kids. Children are not that innocent. They’re just afraid to let the parent know it.

]]> By: David B. Coe http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7327 David B. Coe Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:32:35 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7327 I'm a Dad with two daughters, 14 and 10. I'm also a writer who has faced the same question that was put to Marie. As a Dad, I rely on my knowledge of my kids and what each one can and can't deal with. My older one deals very maturely with sexual issues and matters of personal behavior, but she gets freaked out by gore. The younger one tends to frighten easily -- not just gore, but also implied violence or the threat of it. Each child is different; every book is unique. As a parent, there is no easy way to deal with this. As a writer, I can only give a sense of what's in the book and what I would do were my own kids to approach me about reading my books. I’m a Dad with two daughters, 14 and 10. I’m also a writer who has faced the same question that was put to Marie. As a Dad, I rely on my knowledge of my kids and what each one can and can’t deal with. My older one deals very maturely with sexual issues and matters of personal behavior, but she gets freaked out by gore. The younger one tends to frighten easily — not just gore, but also implied violence or the threat of it. Each child is different; every book is unique. As a parent, there is no easy way to deal with this. As a writer, I can only give a sense of what’s in the book and what I would do were my own kids to approach me about reading my books.

]]> By: Adele http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7298 Adele Mon, 19 Oct 2009 07:14:37 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7298 When I was about 14 I went through a major horror phase, reading Herbert and Masterton, neither of whom you could logically consider suitable for the age, but it didn't bother me then. I couldn't read some of those books now. Anyway, my present difficulty is that I recruited a friends kids as reviewers for a youth version of my book blog, they are 10 and 12, both precocious readers in terms of ability. When the books come through to me I have to make an assesment, do I pass them to my friend with a recommendation for her kids or not? Actually if they are borderline I chicken out and let her make the decision but the whole process has been an education to me and reminded me that kids are not quite as delicate and easily influenced as one might think. The 10 yr old incidentally read a book aimed at slightly older children and has made it perfectly clear he would love to read the rest of the series but in a year or two. When I was about 14 I went through a major horror phase, reading Herbert and Masterton, neither of whom you could logically consider suitable for the age, but it didn’t bother me then. I couldn’t read some of those books now.
Anyway, my present difficulty is that I recruited a friends kids as reviewers for a youth version of my book blog, they are 10 and 12, both precocious readers in terms of ability. When the books come through to me I have to make an assesment, do I pass them to my friend with a recommendation for her kids or not? Actually if they are borderline I chicken out and let her make the decision but the whole process has been an education to me and reminded me that kids are not quite as delicate and easily influenced as one might think. The 10 yr old incidentally read a book aimed at slightly older children and has made it perfectly clear he would love to read the rest of the series but in a year or two.

]]> By: Elias McClellan http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7256 Elias McClellan Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:43:31 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7256 Daemon, I'm not sure from your post, but I think that I respectfully dissagree. While I previously stated that parents cannot depend on anyone to raise their kids for them, I whole-heartedly believe that parents should censor what their kids, read, watch, and/or play. I read the Gor books as a kid as well as Lovecraft and many comics that were not appropriate to my emotional/maturity (or immaturity)level. The Gor books are misogynistic at best. And world-reknowned praise aside, Lovecraft was a bigot. Further, I grew up in Texas where only lip-service is paid to respect for women and cultural respect is a token-effort at best. No one I knew read, or they didn't read SF/F anyway. My parents were not readers of anything more challenging than the sports-page and thought that as long as my nose was in a book, I was okay. It's only by dint of other works, other associations that I wasn't more influenced by the myriad authors I read. Rather than argue to the adsurd I'll simply say not everything that was good to me, was good for me. Just like clothing, vehicles, and even food, some things out there are marketed just to kids. And just like 'those' products, there are books that are down right hateful and harmful to children. Only the parent can determine where their kid is and if their kid is ready to deal with messages and agendas apart from entertainment. Daemon, I’m not sure from your post, but I think that I respectfully dissagree. While I previously stated that parents cannot depend on anyone to raise their kids for them, I whole-heartedly believe that parents should censor what their kids, read, watch, and/or play.

I read the Gor books as a kid as well as Lovecraft and many comics that were not appropriate to my emotional/maturity (or immaturity)level. The Gor books are misogynistic at best. And world-reknowned praise aside, Lovecraft was a bigot.

Further, I grew up in Texas where only lip-service is paid to respect for women and cultural respect is a token-effort at best. No one I knew read, or they didn’t read SF/F anyway. My parents were not readers of anything more challenging than the sports-page and thought that as long as my nose was in a book, I was okay. It’s only by dint of other works, other associations that I wasn’t more influenced by the myriad authors I read. Rather than argue to the adsurd I’ll simply say not everything that was good to me, was good for me.

Just like clothing, vehicles, and even food, some things out there are marketed just to kids. And just like ‘those’ products, there are books that are down right hateful and harmful to children. Only the parent can determine where their kid is and if their kid is ready to deal with messages and agendas apart from entertainment.

]]> By: Daemon http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7255 Daemon Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:01:56 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7255 I remember reading dragonlance, for example, in grade 4 or 5. By the time I was 13, around 20 years ago, I was reading 2-3 books a day (seriously!) - mostly adult sf/f, having long since worked through the stuff for younger folks. I was a big of Lovecraft too. I think the majority of adults radicually underestimate kids - especially their own kids. Too many overprotective parents listen to media parenting advice/scare stories, and not enough actually pay attention to the kids. Not to mention the parents who want other people to make their parenting decisions for them - and who will cry bloody murder if those decisions don't work out well. If a parent is going to censor their kids books, then they should bloody well read the books themselves. I remember reading dragonlance, for example, in grade 4 or 5. By the time I was 13, around 20 years ago, I was reading 2-3 books a day (seriously!) – mostly adult sf/f, having long since worked through the stuff for younger folks. I was a big of Lovecraft too.

I think the majority of adults radicually underestimate kids – especially their own kids. Too many overprotective parents listen to media parenting advice/scare stories, and not enough actually pay attention to the kids. Not to mention the parents who want other people to make their parenting decisions for them – and who will cry bloody murder if those decisions don’t work out well.

If a parent is going to censor their kids books, then they should bloody well read the books themselves.

]]> By: Laura http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7254 Laura Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:52:34 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7254 There is no cut and dried answer. It doesn't matter if it's books, movies, or games. I've raised two kids to adulthood and I censored both of them differently depending on their maturity levels and interests. My main goal was not to let them become desensitized to violence and my second was to make sure they maintained their ability to keep reality and fantasy seperate. At to those ends, I succeeded. And as a final note they are both avid readers and game players. There is no cut and dried answer. It doesn’t matter if it’s books, movies, or games.

I’ve raised two kids to adulthood and I censored both of them differently depending on their maturity levels and interests.

My main goal was not to let them become desensitized to violence and my second was to make sure they maintained their ability to keep reality and fantasy seperate.

At to those ends, I succeeded. And as a final note they are both avid readers and game players.

]]> By: Skip http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7252 Skip Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:15:03 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7252 As a grumpy semi-old guy, honestly if you can't immediately answer yes, the answer should be 'probably not', to be safe. Even if you describe the contents, your impression of 'a little x', 'moderate y' will probably not match up with theirs. I don't know what I'd do if I had kids, other than let them read through my library, appropriately segregated. I certainly couldn't just let them loose in the public library like I was at that age. I'm sure the equivalent to today's Laurell K Hamilton sex with a hint of plot books, or Richard K Morgan's violence-fests existed in 1982, but they sure weren't in the public library SF&F section in Texas at the time, like they would be today. As a grumpy semi-old guy, honestly if you can’t immediately answer yes, the answer should be ‘probably not’, to be safe. Even if you describe the contents, your impression of ‘a little x’, ‘moderate y’ will probably not match up with theirs.

I don’t know what I’d do if I had kids, other than let them read through my library, appropriately segregated. I certainly couldn’t just let them loose in the public library like I was at that age. I’m sure the equivalent to today’s Laurell K Hamilton sex with a hint of plot books, or Richard K Morgan’s violence-fests existed in 1982, but they sure weren’t in the public library SF&F section in Texas at the time, like they would be today.

]]> By: Elias McClellan http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7251 Elias McClellan Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:14:01 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2009/10/16/age-appropriate/#comment-7251 LJC/AH, if you're gonna insist on thinkingand acting rationally I don't believe you'll go far in this whole, parenting-thing. Considering what I've seen so far, anyway. It seems to be a culture of blame and excuse. The wife and I are currently working two jobs each to save for an adoption. Suddenly, I'm hyper-aware of age-appropriate books, TV shows, and movies. I don't think most of the stuff on Cartoon Network makes the cut. For that matter, I don't think 'The Transformers' movie makes the cut. It amazes me how so many people just take it on assumption that a rating system somehow eliminates the need to PARENT. Honestly, I think it's more a matter of saying, 'well, the author/singer/rating/label, told me it was okay.' Or the parent has a scape-goat for what might be a kid that isn't wired right or is just bad. That book/song/video game turned my baby into a goon that shot-up the school. Yeah, L. Frank Baum or WOW did that. It wasn't the fact that maybe you should get to know your kid and not trust a book, TV, or video game to know emotional/developmental level or look out for your kid's best interests. LJC/AH, if you’re gonna insist on thinkingand acting rationally I don’t believe you’ll go far in this whole, parenting-thing. Considering what I’ve seen so far, anyway. It seems to be a culture of blame and excuse. The wife and I are currently working two jobs each to save for an adoption. Suddenly, I’m hyper-aware of age-appropriate books, TV shows, and movies. I don’t think most of the stuff on Cartoon Network makes the cut. For that matter, I don’t think ‘The Transformers’ movie makes the cut. It amazes me how so many people just take it on assumption that a rating system somehow eliminates the need to PARENT.

Honestly, I think it’s more a matter of saying, ‘well, the author/singer/rating/label, told me it was okay.’ Or the parent has a scape-goat for what might be a kid that isn’t wired right or is just bad. That book/song/video game turned my baby into a goon that shot-up the school. Yeah, L. Frank Baum or WOW did that. It wasn’t the fact that maybe you should get to know your kid and not trust a book, TV, or video game to know emotional/developmental level or look out for your kid’s best interests.

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