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	<title>Comments on: Cliches I Have Loved</title>
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	<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/</link>
	<description>A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists</description>
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		<title>By: JayBee</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4506</link>
		<dc:creator>JayBee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4506</guid>
		<description>I think of tropes as each possessing an individual energetic charge. The Eavesdropping trope, for instance, is mostly a lazy way for a writer to impart information to the protag, and has a low energy. Makes for a dull scene.

The Voyeur trope, on the other hand, no matter how often it&#039;s been used, still has power if skillfully deployed, especially if the spied-upon scene is transgressive or revelatory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think of tropes as each possessing an individual energetic charge. The Eavesdropping trope, for instance, is mostly a lazy way for a writer to impart information to the protag, and has a low energy. Makes for a dull scene.</p>
<p>The Voyeur trope, on the other hand, no matter how often it&#8217;s been used, still has power if skillfully deployed, especially if the spied-upon scene is transgressive or revelatory.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4310</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 05:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4310</guid>
		<description>Ha.  Yeah.  Like that Shakespeare dude:  he&#039;s full of cliches!


Maybe it&#039;s also in how it&#039;s used, like someone being sad and its raining outside.  Done poorly, it comes across as a cliche.  Done well, it seems natural and even inevitable to the mood and setting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha.  Yeah.  Like that Shakespeare dude:  he&#8217;s full of cliches!</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s also in how it&#8217;s used, like someone being sad and its raining outside.  Done poorly, it comes across as a cliche.  Done well, it seems natural and even inevitable to the mood and setting?</p>
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		<title>By: OtterB</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4309</link>
		<dc:creator>OtterB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 02:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4309</guid>
		<description>In my daughter&#039;s high school English class, they were reading Poe (I think) and some of the students were complaining that it was full of cliches. The teacher pointed out that it&#039;s not a cliche if *you&#039;re the one who invented it.*

In addition to cliches and tropes, I was wondering about the distinction between a cliche and an archetype. (Taking a shot at answering my own question) Maybe the archetype resonates with us at a deep level, and the cliche is the surface view. Something that&#039;s too cliched never goes deep enough to earn its emotion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my daughter&#8217;s high school English class, they were reading Poe (I think) and some of the students were complaining that it was full of cliches. The teacher pointed out that it&#8217;s not a cliche if *you&#8217;re the one who invented it.*</p>
<p>In addition to cliches and tropes, I was wondering about the distinction between a cliche and an archetype. (Taking a shot at answering my own question) Maybe the archetype resonates with us at a deep level, and the cliche is the surface view. Something that&#8217;s too cliched never goes deep enough to earn its emotion.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4274</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4274</guid>
		<description>A cliche and a trope?  Hmm.  Good question.  Maybe when I&#039;m talking about cliches I&#039;m really talking about tropes.

Sam - yeah - really - as long as you can make it work it doesn&#039;t matter how many rules it breaks.  Or doesn&#039;t break.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A cliche and a trope?  Hmm.  Good question.  Maybe when I&#8217;m talking about cliches I&#8217;m really talking about tropes.</p>
<p>Sam &#8211; yeah &#8211; really &#8211; as long as you can make it work it doesn&#8217;t matter how many rules it breaks.  Or doesn&#8217;t break.</p>
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		<title>By: Publishing Blogs Weekly Round-Up &#171; Luv YA</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4272</link>
		<dc:creator>Publishing Blogs Weekly Round-Up &#171; Luv YA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4272</guid>
		<description>[...] all know I love Kate Elliott and HERE Kate admits to loving [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all know I love Kate Elliott and HERE Kate admits to loving [...]</p>
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		<title>By: S.C. Butler</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4269</link>
		<dc:creator>S.C. Butler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 03:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4269</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t mind cliches, if they&#039;re done well.  You can get away with just about anything if you do it well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t mind cliches, if they&#8217;re done well.  You can get away with just about anything if you do it well.</p>
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		<title>By: cedunkley</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4268</link>
		<dc:creator>cedunkley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4268</guid>
		<description>So, how much of a difference is there between a cliche and a trope?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, how much of a difference is there between a cliche and a trope?</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4267</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4267</guid>
		<description>Mad - yeah - you should write something about cliche being shorthand.  That&#039;s a useful craft consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mad &#8211; yeah &#8211; you should write something about cliche being shorthand.  That&#8217;s a useful craft consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4266</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4266</guid>
		<description>I like Ibbotson and think she is a very good writer.  Maybe if I&#039;d been in a different mood The Countess Below Stairs would have worked for me.  I know other readers who find it a comfort book.  The book by her about the hatmaker in Vienna (?) which I read some years ago I liked quite a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Ibbotson and think she is a very good writer.  Maybe if I&#8217;d been in a different mood The Countess Below Stairs would have worked for me.  I know other readers who find it a comfort book.  The book by her about the hatmaker in Vienna (?) which I read some years ago I liked quite a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4265</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/18/cliches-i-have-loved/#comment-4265</guid>
		<description>&quot;The question for me is does it feel right for the story&quot;

Yeah, exactly.  A writer who is being lazy or who isn&#039;t thinking hard about what is going on (or who is very inexperienced) may insert cliches because s/he thinks &quot;they need to go there now to be like these other books.&quot;

Yet a novel like Twilight, which I can&#039;t read, works precisely because of its cliches, which make it a comfort book for its readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The question for me is does it feel right for the story&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, exactly.  A writer who is being lazy or who isn&#8217;t thinking hard about what is going on (or who is very inexperienced) may insert cliches because s/he thinks &#8220;they need to go there now to be like these other books.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yet a novel like Twilight, which I can&#8217;t read, works precisely because of its cliches, which make it a comfort book for its readers.</p>
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