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	<title>Comments on: There&#8217;s Something About Monarchy</title>
	<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/</link>
	<description>A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Peter Tupper</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-6046</link>
		<author>Peter Tupper</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 19:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-6046</guid>
		<description>I wonder if this is a particularly American phenomenon. I'm Canadian, and I watched the emphasis on the individual qualities of McCain and Obama in the last election with bemusement. Canada hasn't had this kind of charismatic, heroic, kingly head of government since Pierre Trudeau. We only rarely invest our leaders with that kind of psychological weight. 

Fiction, particularly the genre kind, is usually about individuals making choices that matter in the world. The point of non-monarchies (whether liberal democracies or collectivist states) is that the system evens out the excesses of the individual. 

If you've ever been involved in a democratic organization, even a party planning committee, you know what a grind it can be. Endless debates and compromise and power plays are enough to make anybody yearn for the supposed swift efficiency of autocracy. You want to be a hero instead of a bureaucrat, Jack Bauer instead of a paper-pushing, report-filing, meeting-taking drone.

Is there even room for heroism in a truly democratic society? Yes, but it takes different forms than the warrior-king archetype. I think of the guy on the ferry in "The Dark Knight", who has a democratic mandate to push the button and kill hundreds of people in order to save himself and the other people on his boat. Yet, out of his own conscience, he refuses. 

I also think of Joss Whedon's "Serenity", in which the hero is an admitted thief and pirate whose great accomplishment is to expose a covered-up mass murder. 

That's also why Kim Stanley Robinson's novels are so refreshing. No scientist-warrior-king-saviors, just imperfect people stumbling around through lots of meetings and hard work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if this is a particularly American phenomenon. I&#8217;m Canadian, and I watched the emphasis on the individual qualities of McCain and Obama in the last election with bemusement. Canada hasn&#8217;t had this kind of charismatic, heroic, kingly head of government since Pierre Trudeau. We only rarely invest our leaders with that kind of psychological weight. </p>
<p>Fiction, particularly the genre kind, is usually about individuals making choices that matter in the world. The point of non-monarchies (whether liberal democracies or collectivist states) is that the system evens out the excesses of the individual. </p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve ever been involved in a democratic organization, even a party planning committee, you know what a grind it can be. Endless debates and compromise and power plays are enough to make anybody yearn for the supposed swift efficiency of autocracy. You want to be a hero instead of a bureaucrat, Jack Bauer instead of a paper-pushing, report-filing, meeting-taking drone.</p>
<p>Is there even room for heroism in a truly democratic society? Yes, but it takes different forms than the warrior-king archetype. I think of the guy on the ferry in &#8220;The Dark Knight&#8221;, who has a democratic mandate to push the button and kill hundreds of people in order to save himself and the other people on his boat. Yet, out of his own conscience, he refuses. </p>
<p>I also think of Joss Whedon&#8217;s &#8220;Serenity&#8221;, in which the hero is an admitted thief and pirate whose great accomplishment is to expose a covered-up mass murder. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s also why Kim Stanley Robinson&#8217;s novels are so refreshing. No scientist-warrior-king-saviors, just imperfect people stumbling around through lots of meetings and hard work.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie Brennan</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-5677</link>
		<author>Marie Brennan</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-5677</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It occurs to me that, in addition to a modicum of laziness, fantasy (especially, perhaps, US fantasy) is also deeply nostalgic for that monarchic past.&lt;/i&gt;

I disagree quite strongly.  Not that nostalgic fantasy doesn't exist; of course it does.  But I object to the (frequently reflexive) pairing of fantasy with nostalgia, because that word implies we're all sitting around going, gee, weren't things better and more magical back in the good ol' medieval (or whatever) days?  For one thing, it conveniently sweeps the entirety of urban fantasy under the rug, as if we don't have a big sub-genre that's all about the magical in the modern world.

I've &lt;a href="http://www.swantower.com/marie/essays/philosophy/goldenbough.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;ranted about the nostalgia thing before&lt;/a&gt;.  I might add to my previous thoughts this other angle, which is that the vast majority of human existence has been "non-technological" (read: pre-industrial); I don't see anything wrong with that being the majority of fantasy settings, either.  Choosing to write about pre-industrial cultures doesn't mean we have a sentimentalized longing for them -- or for their governments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It occurs to me that, in addition to a modicum of laziness, fantasy (especially, perhaps, US fantasy) is also deeply nostalgic for that monarchic past.</i></p>
<p>I disagree quite strongly.  Not that nostalgic fantasy doesn&#8217;t exist; of course it does.  But I object to the (frequently reflexive) pairing of fantasy with nostalgia, because that word implies we&#8217;re all sitting around going, gee, weren&#8217;t things better and more magical back in the good ol&#8217; medieval (or whatever) days?  For one thing, it conveniently sweeps the entirety of urban fantasy under the rug, as if we don&#8217;t have a big sub-genre that&#8217;s all about the magical in the modern world.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve <a href="http://www.swantower.com/marie/essays/philosophy/goldenbough.html" rel="nofollow">ranted about the nostalgia thing before</a>.  I might add to my previous thoughts this other angle, which is that the vast majority of human existence has been &#8220;non-technological&#8221; (read: pre-industrial); I don&#8217;t see anything wrong with that being the majority of fantasy settings, either.  Choosing to write about pre-industrial cultures doesn&#8217;t mean we have a sentimentalized longing for them &#8212; or for their governments.</p>
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		<title>By: Carlea Holl-Jensen</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-5293</link>
		<author>Carlea Holl-Jensen</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-5293</guid>
		<description>It occurs to me that, in addition to a modicum of laziness, fantasy (especially, perhaps, US fantasy) is also deeply nostalgic for that monarchic past.  The monarchy is our (American) history; it is, as you say, a mythologized part of our past.  In a way, fantasy idealizes the past even more than historical fiction, because fantasy writers imbue the past with a magical atmosphere.  The past is a place where incredible things have happened, and the magic of that time is often thought to be extinct in our modern era.  I think there is a certain distaste for modern life.  How often do you see a protagonist in so-called "literary fiction" whip out a cell phone or Google something?  We tend to assume our current era is lacking in a certain charm and, indeed, magic--when, in fact, that fantastic quality is something we've spun around the past ourselves, and is no more lacking today than it was a thousand years ago.

I'll stop rambling now.  These are some very well-observed comments, and it was a pleasure reading them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It occurs to me that, in addition to a modicum of laziness, fantasy (especially, perhaps, US fantasy) is also deeply nostalgic for that monarchic past.  The monarchy is our (American) history; it is, as you say, a mythologized part of our past.  In a way, fantasy idealizes the past even more than historical fiction, because fantasy writers imbue the past with a magical atmosphere.  The past is a place where incredible things have happened, and the magic of that time is often thought to be extinct in our modern era.  I think there is a certain distaste for modern life.  How often do you see a protagonist in so-called &#8220;literary fiction&#8221; whip out a cell phone or Google something?  We tend to assume our current era is lacking in a certain charm and, indeed, magic&#8211;when, in fact, that fantastic quality is something we&#8217;ve spun around the past ourselves, and is no more lacking today than it was a thousand years ago.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stop rambling now.  These are some very well-observed comments, and it was a pleasure reading them!</p>
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		<title>By: Marie Brennan</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-5199</link>
		<author>Marie Brennan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-5199</guid>
		<description>Eliza -- that's one of several things I love Martin for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eliza &#8212; that&#8217;s one of several things I love Martin for.</p>
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		<title>By: Eliza Wyatt</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-5192</link>
		<author>Eliza Wyatt</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 19:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-5192</guid>
		<description>George R. R. Martin, in his 'Songs of Ice and Fire' series. Read them.

It's mostly about a monarchy (actually, its about noble houses wresting for control of said monarchy), but he touches on other lands, councils, nomadic horse-lords, religious figureheads (I believe there is a culture that raises up a ceremonial prince regularly, then butchers him when the crops fail or a disaster strikes), and free cities that aren't free at all.

If you do a monarchy right, it's anything but simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George R. R. Martin, in his &#8216;Songs of Ice and Fire&#8217; series. Read them.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s mostly about a monarchy (actually, its about noble houses wresting for control of said monarchy), but he touches on other lands, councils, nomadic horse-lords, religious figureheads (I believe there is a culture that raises up a ceremonial prince regularly, then butchers him when the crops fail or a disaster strikes), and free cities that aren&#8217;t free at all.</p>
<p>If you do a monarchy right, it&#8217;s anything but simple.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie Brennan</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4270</link>
		<author>Marie Brennan</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 07:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4270</guid>
		<description>Dave -- glad it helped!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave &#8212; glad it helped!</p>
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		<title>By: NewGuyDave</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4248</link>
		<author>NewGuyDave</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 18:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4248</guid>
		<description>Until I took up novel writing, I had never considered the advantages or disadvantages of the types of government in a story. I suppose my decision to have a monarchy was based on what I've read. 

Now that I'm trying to flesh things out in my first novel, I can see the wisdom in what you've written. I've already considered different types of governing power to my world, and hope to add tribal leaders, god-kings, and democratic councils to future stories as the characters travel and become more worldly. 

Thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until I took up novel writing, I had never considered the advantages or disadvantages of the types of government in a story. I suppose my decision to have a monarchy was based on what I&#8217;ve read. </p>
<p>Now that I&#8217;m trying to flesh things out in my first novel, I can see the wisdom in what you&#8217;ve written. I&#8217;ve already considered different types of governing power to my world, and hope to add tribal leaders, god-kings, and democratic councils to future stories as the characters travel and become more worldly. </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing.</p>
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		<title>By: hagelrat</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4247</link>
		<author>hagelrat</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4247</guid>
		<description>I would rather see an old formula crafted really well to create a great story than something which lost quality in order to demonstrate originality. Not that being different necessarily means less good, but I have never got tired of reading epic fantasy with a monarchy and seeing the different ways skilled authors use that basic set up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would rather see an old formula crafted really well to create a great story than something which lost quality in order to demonstrate originality. Not that being different necessarily means less good, but I have never got tired of reading epic fantasy with a monarchy and seeing the different ways skilled authors use that basic set up.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Lewerin</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4246</link>
		<author>Peter Lewerin</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 11:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4246</guid>
		<description>I think it's mostly that modern fantasy is dominated by USAian writers, and that USA for most intents and purposes is an elective monarchy.  You write what you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s mostly that modern fantasy is dominated by USAian writers, and that USA for most intents and purposes is an elective monarchy.  You write what you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie Brennan</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4242</link>
		<author>Marie Brennan</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/16/theres-something-about-monarchy/#comment-4242</guid>
		<description>Well, the prequels had so many problems, it's hard to tease one out from the rest. &#60;g&#62;

The hero/villain aspect grows out of the individuality, I think.  You &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; tell an interesting story within a more bureaucratic system, and even one that has an individual doing heroic (or villainous) things, but it can fall into the &lt;i&gt;24&lt;/i&gt; trap -- you end up with this outrageous character who somehow gets away with running roughshod over all the usual procedures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the prequels had so many problems, it&#8217;s hard to tease one out from the rest. &lt;g&gt;</p>
<p>The hero/villain aspect grows out of the individuality, I think.  You <i>can</i> tell an interesting story within a more bureaucratic system, and even one that has an individual doing heroic (or villainous) things, but it can fall into the <i>24</i> trap &#8212; you end up with this outrageous character who somehow gets away with running roughshod over all the usual procedures.</p>
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