Comments on: Making Worlds That Make Sense http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/ A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists Thu, 09 Sep 2010 22:40:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: David B. Coe http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-7976 David B. Coe Mon, 25 Jan 2010 18:49:07 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-7976 I'm an author. I'm a liberal Democrat. If you don't like the opinions I'm expressing that's fine, but don't make assumptions about my profession or my politics. For the record, my wife is the brilliant academician I was referring to, and yeah, I'd put her intellect up against Rod Blagojevich's any day of the week.... I’m an author. I’m a liberal Democrat. If you don’t like the opinions I’m expressing that’s fine, but don’t make assumptions about my profession or my politics. For the record, my wife is the brilliant academician I was referring to, and yeah, I’d put her intellect up against Rod Blagojevich’s any day of the week….

]]> By: peacerenity http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-7969 peacerenity Mon, 25 Jan 2010 04:53:03 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-7969 "we think nothing of living in a world in which fools run nations and brilliant academicians are paid a pittance." lol, please show your political affiliation and profession more, mr. coe. “we think nothing of living in a world in which fools run nations and brilliant academicians are paid a pittance.”

lol, please show your political affiliation and profession more, mr. coe.

]]> By: bob charters http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4208 bob charters Fri, 12 Dec 2008 02:06:15 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4208 The old proverb (how old is it? I don't know): "Truth is stranger than fiction", is probably a useful one for us writers of fiction to keep in mind. The point: don't try to make your fiction stranger than some of the truth you hear! While the "truth", in itself, would make a good non fiction story, it's selling point is the fact that it actually happened. Our selling point is the fact that it makes a good story, even if it didn't happen. The old proverb (how old is it? I don’t know): “Truth is stranger than fiction”, is probably a useful one for us writers of fiction to keep in mind. The point: don’t try to make your fiction stranger than some of the truth you hear!

While the “truth”, in itself, would make a good non fiction story, it’s selling point is the fact that it actually happened. Our selling point is the fact that it makes a good story, even if it didn’t happen.

]]> By: David B. Coe http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4207 David B. Coe Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:32:12 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4207 Leanne, sorry I missed your comment earlier. Yes, I'm sure that there is no example you could imagine that would be stranger than things that have actually happened. Daemon, excellent point -- you're right, most himuan institutions and endeavors represent attempts to impose rationality and understandable patterns on a chaotic world. Leanne, sorry I missed your comment earlier. Yes, I’m sure that there is no example you could imagine that would be stranger than things that have actually happened.

Daemon, excellent point — you’re right, most himuan institutions and endeavors represent attempts to impose rationality and understandable patterns on a chaotic world.

]]> By: Daemonworks http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4205 Daemonworks Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:09:30 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4205 When you think about it, out species has made quite the hobby out of trying to force the universe in general, not to mention our fellow human beings, to actually make sense. The driving impulse behind religion, philosophy, science, psychology, etc. is, largely, the question "Why the hell did that just happen?!" People tend to get quite uncomfortable when things happen that they don't understand. Fairly often if we can't figure out why it happened, we'll invent reasons, or accept the first explanation given to us by somebody who seems to know what they are talking about. It's not too surprising that people want books to make sense, given how much effort we put into denying that real life is largely composed of nonsense. When you think about it, out species has made quite the hobby out of trying to force the universe in general, not to mention our fellow human beings, to actually make sense. The driving impulse behind religion, philosophy, science, psychology, etc. is, largely, the question “Why the hell did that just happen?!” People tend to get quite uncomfortable when things happen that they don’t understand. Fairly often if we can’t figure out why it happened, we’ll invent reasons, or accept the first explanation given to us by somebody who seems to know what they are talking about.

It’s not too surprising that people want books to make sense, given how much effort we put into denying that real life is largely composed of nonsense.

]]> By: David B. Coe http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4204 David B. Coe Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:49:09 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4204 No, we can't yell at the author. I do spend a fair amount of time shaking my fist at the cosmos, however. :) Thanks for the comments, Adam. No, we can’t yell at the author. I do spend a fair amount of time shaking my fist at the cosmos, however. :)

Thanks for the comments, Adam.

]]> By: Adam Heine http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4203 Adam Heine Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:20:17 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4203 Ugh, I keep doing that. I meant to say, "You're right." It's gotta be some kind Freudian slip or something. Ugh, I keep doing that. I meant to say, “You’re right.”

It’s gotta be some kind Freudian slip or something.

]]> By: Adam Heine http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4202 Adam Heine Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:47:22 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4202 You're write. Life doesn't follow recognizable story arcs. For some reason, though, we <i>want</i> it to. I think that points to something, some need, deep inside of us, but that's a much bigger topic than this post perhaps. I guess I would say that the "rules" we have for fiction, we also apply to reality, but in reality we can't yell at the author for "doing it wrong." You’re write. Life doesn’t follow recognizable story arcs. For some reason, though, we want it to. I think that points to something, some need, deep inside of us, but that’s a much bigger topic than this post perhaps.

I guess I would say that the “rules” we have for fiction, we also apply to reality, but in reality we can’t yell at the author for “doing it wrong.”

]]> By: David B. Coe http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4201 David B. Coe Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:53:50 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4201 Thanks for the clarification, Kelly. I think we're coming at this matter from the same place. Raethe, thanks for the comment, and please feel free to lurk and comment any time! And Adam, thank you for commenting as well. I still maintain that fiction and reality are different, and that fiction has certain "rules" that have to be met for a story to work. Life isn't neat. It doesn't always follow recognizable story arcs. And sometimes human behavior isn't rational. For a novel to work it has to be internal consistent. Characters need to develop in ways that make sense. That doesn't mean they have to be predictable; it just means that when they're not predictable, there has to be a satisfying reason. Thanks for the clarification, Kelly. I think we’re coming at this matter from the same place.

Raethe, thanks for the comment, and please feel free to lurk and comment any time! And Adam, thank you for commenting as well. I still maintain that fiction and reality are different, and that fiction has certain “rules” that have to be met for a story to work. Life isn’t neat. It doesn’t always follow recognizable story arcs. And sometimes human behavior isn’t rational. For a novel to work it has to be internal consistent. Characters need to develop in ways that make sense. That doesn’t mean they have to be predictable; it just means that when they’re not predictable, there has to be a satisfying reason.

]]> By: Kelly McCullough http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4200 Kelly McCullough Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:47:54 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/12/10/making-worlds-that-make-sense/#comment-4200 David, I guess I did some shorthanding there and probably cheated a bit. I've encountered "escapist" used in exactly the denigrating manner you mentioned any number of times, and because of that, any time I encounter it I try to shift the ground to the idea of refuge. It's pretty much reflexive at this point. I do it both in an attempt to disempower the word as an attack on genre and to point out that escape is a powerful survival tool. Whether it shuts that particular argument down for that person in a more general way over the long run, I don't know, but I do find that I almost never hear it from the same person twice. David, I guess I did some shorthanding there and probably cheated a bit. I’ve encountered “escapist” used in exactly the denigrating manner you mentioned any number of times, and because of that, any time I encounter it I try to shift the ground to the idea of refuge. It’s pretty much reflexive at this point. I do it both in an attempt to disempower the word as an attack on genre and to point out that escape is a powerful survival tool. Whether it shuts that particular argument down for that person in a more general way over the long run, I don’t know, but I do find that I almost never hear it from the same person twice.

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