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	<title>Comments on: How do you make your book the best it can be?</title>
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		<title>By: Incurable Disease of Writing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Just Write Blog Carnival December 12, 2008 Edition</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4209</link>
		<dc:creator>Incurable Disease of Writing &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Just Write Blog Carnival December 12, 2008 Edition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4209</guid>
		<description>[...] Dolley presents How do you make your book the best it can be? posted at SF [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dolley presents How do you make your book the best it can be? posted at SF [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Coen</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4145</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Coen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 17:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4145</guid>
		<description>I used to have the most wonderful plot-oriented beta reader - who I also became acquainted with through a workshop, Online Writing Workshop.  It was through him that I really learned what a plot was and how it should function.  I mean, let&#039;s face it--while we are all variably gifted in portions of the writing process, I doubt any of us are pros at it all.  (And if you are, I want you to beta read for me!  *g*)  

Color me as a writer who thinks it&#039;s a great idea to use the competencies of your friends...and if you happen to be able to recruit beta readers specifically for those competencies, go for it.  In those areas where we know we&#039;re lacking, it just makes sense to pursue outside expertise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to have the most wonderful plot-oriented beta reader &#8211; who I also became acquainted with through a workshop, Online Writing Workshop.  It was through him that I really learned what a plot was and how it should function.  I mean, let&#8217;s face it&#8211;while we are all variably gifted in portions of the writing process, I doubt any of us are pros at it all.  (And if you are, I want you to beta read for me!  *g*)  </p>
<p>Color me as a writer who thinks it&#8217;s a great idea to use the competencies of your friends&#8230;and if you happen to be able to recruit beta readers specifically for those competencies, go for it.  In those areas where we know we&#8217;re lacking, it just makes sense to pursue outside expertise.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Dolley</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4144</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Dolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4144</guid>
		<description>Jaime, I certainly don&#039;t advocate splitting story elements up and pulling out individual threads. Each beta reader receives the whole book. Some may be asked to read the book paying special attention to x or y, others might be asked to comment on how they think a reader of a particular subgenre may view the book. It changes from book to book. 

    &quot;If the magic or worldbuilding doesn’t work, most beta readers are going to twig to that pretty quickly. If the romance or the love story in a book is too over the top or twee, your average reader is going to pick up on that too.&quot;

I make the assumption (crazy optimist that I am) that the author has done his/her research and has a pretty tight book before it sees its first beta reader. So the beta readers are checking, say, the magic system for consistency - odd little wobbles that the author may have missed or never considered the full implications of. 

As for the &#039;average&#039; reader - you only have to look at Amazon reviews to see how varied their opinions can be. Some subgenres even have different sets of rules and expectations that readers/writers unfamiliar with might not appreciate. I&#039;m short of time at the moment, so I&#039;m rushing to finish this, but I&#039;ve heard that Romance readers can get quite annoyed if their expectations are not met. And, I may be wrong, but I think the MilSF or AltHist readers are much more forgiving of infodumps. They like the extra detail. So if you&#039;re straying towards another genre and want to know how your book will be received there it makes sense (IMHO) to canvas a wide opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jaime, I certainly don&#8217;t advocate splitting story elements up and pulling out individual threads. Each beta reader receives the whole book. Some may be asked to read the book paying special attention to x or y, others might be asked to comment on how they think a reader of a particular subgenre may view the book. It changes from book to book. </p>
<p>    &#8220;If the magic or worldbuilding doesn’t work, most beta readers are going to twig to that pretty quickly. If the romance or the love story in a book is too over the top or twee, your average reader is going to pick up on that too.&#8221;</p>
<p>I make the assumption (crazy optimist that I am) that the author has done his/her research and has a pretty tight book before it sees its first beta reader. So the beta readers are checking, say, the magic system for consistency &#8211; odd little wobbles that the author may have missed or never considered the full implications of. </p>
<p>As for the &#8216;average&#8217; reader &#8211; you only have to look at Amazon reviews to see how varied their opinions can be. Some subgenres even have different sets of rules and expectations that readers/writers unfamiliar with might not appreciate. I&#8217;m short of time at the moment, so I&#8217;m rushing to finish this, but I&#8217;ve heard that Romance readers can get quite annoyed if their expectations are not met. And, I may be wrong, but I think the MilSF or AltHist readers are much more forgiving of infodumps. They like the extra detail. So if you&#8217;re straying towards another genre and want to know how your book will be received there it makes sense (IMHO) to canvas a wide opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4143</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4143</guid>
		<description>I debated overnight if I should comment on this or not. I just signed with an agent, but I don&#039;t have books on the shelf yet. I am going to link to this article on LJ and ask some of my friends, all writers and editors, what they think.

But parceling out elements of a novel to beta readers and asking them to concentrate on that one thing, i.e., the magic system or what ever, is just counterintuitive to what I see the function of beta readers as being.  I see them as separate from any experts I might consult for technical details, historical accuracy, etc. All those detail bits come under the heading of research and are on my head. It&#039;s up to me to make sure they all mesh and work and aren&#039;t wrong.

Beta readers tell me if the story works, if the characters are too stupid to live and if I actually have a plot. They view the work as a whole, because in the end, that&#039;s how readers are going to view the story, as one interwoven piece.

If the magic or worldbuilding doesn&#039;t work, most beta readers are going to twig to that pretty quickly. If the romance or the love story in a book is too over the top or twee, your average reader is going to pick up on that too.

Frankly, if the love story in one of my books only works for a romance reader, I&#039;ve failed. That subplot or character element needs to work for everyone.

So this whole idea of splitting story elements up and pulling out individual threads kind of baffles me. How do you balance that? How to you pull it all together into a coherent story arc if no one tells you how the story works as a whole?

I think about process a whole lot, which is why I&#039;m asking. I couldn&#039;t do this, I&#039;d get nothing out of it but confusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I debated overnight if I should comment on this or not. I just signed with an agent, but I don&#8217;t have books on the shelf yet. I am going to link to this article on LJ and ask some of my friends, all writers and editors, what they think.</p>
<p>But parceling out elements of a novel to beta readers and asking them to concentrate on that one thing, i.e., the magic system or what ever, is just counterintuitive to what I see the function of beta readers as being.  I see them as separate from any experts I might consult for technical details, historical accuracy, etc. All those detail bits come under the heading of research and are on my head. It&#8217;s up to me to make sure they all mesh and work and aren&#8217;t wrong.</p>
<p>Beta readers tell me if the story works, if the characters are too stupid to live and if I actually have a plot. They view the work as a whole, because in the end, that&#8217;s how readers are going to view the story, as one interwoven piece.</p>
<p>If the magic or worldbuilding doesn&#8217;t work, most beta readers are going to twig to that pretty quickly. If the romance or the love story in a book is too over the top or twee, your average reader is going to pick up on that too.</p>
<p>Frankly, if the love story in one of my books only works for a romance reader, I&#8217;ve failed. That subplot or character element needs to work for everyone.</p>
<p>So this whole idea of splitting story elements up and pulling out individual threads kind of baffles me. How do you balance that? How to you pull it all together into a coherent story arc if no one tells you how the story works as a whole?</p>
<p>I think about process a whole lot, which is why I&#8217;m asking. I couldn&#8217;t do this, I&#8217;d get nothing out of it but confusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Dolley</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4141</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Dolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4141</guid>
		<description>Jason and Michael, good luck with your books!

Of course the problems begin when the different reviewers start giving conflicting advice. The New Weirders want it weirder and the Supers want that aspect played down. Hopefully that won&#039;t happen and you&#039;ll discover a new, untapped subgenre:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason and Michael, good luck with your books!</p>
<p>Of course the problems begin when the different reviewers start giving conflicting advice. The New Weirders want it weirder and the Supers want that aspect played down. Hopefully that won&#8217;t happen and you&#8217;ll discover a new, untapped subgenre:)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Dolley</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4140</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Dolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4140</guid>
		<description>Simon, yes the identification of boring bits/wtf moments is probably the most important part of the beta reader exercise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon, yes the identification of boring bits/wtf moments is probably the most important part of the beta reader exercise.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Dolley</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4139</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Dolley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4139</guid>
		<description>Bob, yes it&#039;s more difficult but not impossible – I&#039;ve seen message boards with lists of beta readers and the kind of fiction they&#039;re looking for. 

What I did though was join an online workshop. At first it was very difficult to find anyone to review my work but by reviewing other writers&#039; work and joining a mutual reviewer&#039;s list I built up a list of excellent contacts. It&#039;s also where I met fellow SF Novelist Simon Haynes – we were both on a list of people who would reciprocate reviews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, yes it&#8217;s more difficult but not impossible – I&#8217;ve seen message boards with lists of beta readers and the kind of fiction they&#8217;re looking for. </p>
<p>What I did though was join an online workshop. At first it was very difficult to find anyone to review my work but by reviewing other writers&#8217; work and joining a mutual reviewer&#8217;s list I built up a list of excellent contacts. It&#8217;s also where I met fellow SF Novelist Simon Haynes – we were both on a list of people who would reciprocate reviews.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Charters</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4138</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Charters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4138</guid>
		<description>I suppose it gets easier to find Beta readers if one has had a few published already. If you have yet to prove (marketwise) that reading your book is going to be a rewarding experience, finding them might be a bit of a challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose it gets easier to find Beta readers if one has had a few published already. If you have yet to prove (marketwise) that reading your book is going to be a rewarding experience, finding them might be a bit of a challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Haynes</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4137</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4137</guid>
		<description>I used 10 beta readers for my last novel, and I told them I wanted to hear about inconsistencies, wtf moments, boring bits, etc. I did this to avoid having them hand back a comprehensive list of grammatical maybes.

That&#039;s a good idea to assign each one a specific task though - might nab that for the same process with the next book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used 10 beta readers for my last novel, and I told them I wanted to hear about inconsistencies, wtf moments, boring bits, etc. I did this to avoid having them hand back a comprehensive list of grammatical maybes.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a good idea to assign each one a specific task though &#8211; might nab that for the same process with the next book.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael R Underwood</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4136</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael R Underwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/30/how-do-you-make-your-book-the-best-it-can-be/#comment-4136</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve actually been doing something like this for my current novel.  Since it&#039;s a New Weird/Superhero genre fusion, I&#039;ve recruited readers who were New Weird fans but weren&#039;t into superheroes, Supers readers who didn&#039;t know New Weird, and the few people who like both.  I&#039;ve handed it to people who don&#039;t tend towards reading action so that I can see how well it appeals outside its primary audience, and so on.

This is a great recommendation, and thanks for sharing your perspective.  If we only ever have the same people read our work, we&#039;ll just end up writing for those beta readers, and aren&#039;t likely to broaden our readership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve actually been doing something like this for my current novel.  Since it&#8217;s a New Weird/Superhero genre fusion, I&#8217;ve recruited readers who were New Weird fans but weren&#8217;t into superheroes, Supers readers who didn&#8217;t know New Weird, and the few people who like both.  I&#8217;ve handed it to people who don&#8217;t tend towards reading action so that I can see how well it appeals outside its primary audience, and so on.</p>
<p>This is a great recommendation, and thanks for sharing your perspective.  If we only ever have the same people read our work, we&#8217;ll just end up writing for those beta readers, and aren&#8217;t likely to broaden our readership.</p>
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