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	<title>Comments on: How do you get to Carnegie Hall?</title>
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	<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/</link>
	<description>A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists</description>
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		<title>By: James MacAdam</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4056</link>
		<dc:creator>James MacAdam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4056</guid>
		<description>Great post! The only writing &quot;practice&quot; I ever do is in the form of exercises intended to break up a wordjam in my head; otherwise, it&#039;s all editing. Maybe a better verb would be &quot;drafting&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post! The only writing &#8220;practice&#8221; I ever do is in the form of exercises intended to break up a wordjam in my head; otherwise, it&#8217;s all editing. Maybe a better verb would be &#8220;drafting&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Wester Newton</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4040</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Wester Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4040</guid>
		<description>This is an interesting topic.  Actually, the art I have seen done most &quot;for practice&quot; is ceramics.  I&#039;ve seen potters create beautiful pots and then cut them open to measure how thick and even the walls were.  Then they just threw the clay back in the barrel to create another pot.

I think with stories (and even more now with word processors) you can practice by writing stories over and over with different goals&#8212;trying to make a character more sympathetic in one version, trying to crate a surprise ending in another.  Words are every bit as plastic as clay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an interesting topic.  Actually, the art I have seen done most &#8220;for practice&#8221; is ceramics.  I&#8217;ve seen potters create beautiful pots and then cut them open to measure how thick and even the walls were.  Then they just threw the clay back in the barrel to create another pot.</p>
<p>I think with stories (and even more now with word processors) you can practice by writing stories over and over with different goals&mdash;trying to make a character more sympathetic in one version, trying to crate a surprise ending in another.  Words are every bit as plastic as clay.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Iriarte</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4038</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Iriarte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4038</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;It’s not that I intend for them to be scratch pieces, it’s that I’m okay if they are. &quot;&lt;/i&gt;

*nod*

That&#039;s me. I don&#039;t practice writing &lt;i&gt;purpose&lt;/i&gt;. But I do experiment with different things, to see if I like the results. And I&#039;ve got some works that I realize, in hindsight, were practice pieces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;It’s not that I intend for them to be scratch pieces, it’s that I’m okay if they are. &#8220;</i></p>
<p>*nod*</p>
<p>That&#8217;s me. I don&#8217;t practice writing <i>purpose</i>. But I do experiment with different things, to see if I like the results. And I&#8217;ve got some works that I realize, in hindsight, were practice pieces.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Heine</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4037</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Heine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4037</guid>
		<description>In one sense, everything we write is practice, since everything we write makes us better. But in terms of writing solely for practice sake, no, I don&#039;t do that.

Here&#039;s what I do. A few years ago, when I decided I was for really real going to do this writing thing, I had two main story ideas to choose from. I deliberately chose the one I liked less because I knew the first one would be the worse novel.

So the first novel was to prove to myself that I could do it, that I could write a novel. It was practice in that sense, but at the same time I always intended to try and sell it. I know full well that I can&#039;t sell everything I write, but why not try? That&#039;s why I don&#039;t practice; I try to sell everything because you never know what&#039;ll stick.

And actually, I&#039;ve learned a lot from trying to sell it, even though nobody&#039;s bitten yet. So that&#039;s practice too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In one sense, everything we write is practice, since everything we write makes us better. But in terms of writing solely for practice sake, no, I don&#8217;t do that.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what I do. A few years ago, when I decided I was for really real going to do this writing thing, I had two main story ideas to choose from. I deliberately chose the one I liked less because I knew the first one would be the worse novel.</p>
<p>So the first novel was to prove to myself that I could do it, that I could write a novel. It was practice in that sense, but at the same time I always intended to try and sell it. I know full well that I can&#8217;t sell everything I write, but why not try? That&#8217;s why I don&#8217;t practice; I try to sell everything because you never know what&#8217;ll stick.</p>
<p>And actually, I&#8217;ve learned a lot from trying to sell it, even though nobody&#8217;s bitten yet. So that&#8217;s practice too.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4031</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4031</guid>
		<description>Perhaps it reveals too much about my former level of geekery, but I have done practice runs in RPGs.  Whole afternoons running strategies and test fights against the target of that weekend&#039;s live-action vampire slaughter-thon.   

Or the week between D&amp;D games crunching numbers daily, to see if we could take the next redonkulous fight in the Age of Worms.

I&#039;m a&#039;gonna go write about Neandrathals now, and not write Vampire Porn for XP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps it reveals too much about my former level of geekery, but I have done practice runs in RPGs.  Whole afternoons running strategies and test fights against the target of that weekend&#8217;s live-action vampire slaughter-thon.   </p>
<p>Or the week between D&amp;D games crunching numbers daily, to see if we could take the next redonkulous fight in the Age of Worms.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a&#8217;gonna go write about Neandrathals now, and not write Vampire Porn for XP.</p>
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		<title>By: k8</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4030</link>
		<dc:creator>k8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4030</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s an interview with Paul McCartney where he talks about how he and John Lennon felt really bad for George Harrison when George first started writing songs for the Beatles. As McCartney put it, he and John were writing so many songs together that by the time the Beatles got big, they could tell which songs worked and which didn&#039;t, which songs were stronger than others. George, on the other hand, wasn&#039;t nearly as prolific nor as experienced. Thus, the first songs he brought to the band were not bad, necessarily, but they were very formulaic rock n roll songs that didn&#039;t have the complexity or strength of the stuff Lennon and McCartney were putting out by that point. 

He got better, and ended up writing some of the best Beatles songs. But it&#039;s true; if you listen to/watch early shows, the songs by George sound almost like covers of other people&#039;s stuff, while the Lennon-McCartney songs sound like the Beatles. Paul attributed that straight up to practice and experience that George eventually gained, but much more slowly than Paul and John.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an interview with Paul McCartney where he talks about how he and John Lennon felt really bad for George Harrison when George first started writing songs for the Beatles. As McCartney put it, he and John were writing so many songs together that by the time the Beatles got big, they could tell which songs worked and which didn&#8217;t, which songs were stronger than others. George, on the other hand, wasn&#8217;t nearly as prolific nor as experienced. Thus, the first songs he brought to the band were not bad, necessarily, but they were very formulaic rock n roll songs that didn&#8217;t have the complexity or strength of the stuff Lennon and McCartney were putting out by that point. </p>
<p>He got better, and ended up writing some of the best Beatles songs. But it&#8217;s true; if you listen to/watch early shows, the songs by George sound almost like covers of other people&#8217;s stuff, while the Lennon-McCartney songs sound like the Beatles. Paul attributed that straight up to practice and experience that George eventually gained, but much more slowly than Paul and John.</p>
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		<title>By: S.C. Butler</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4029</link>
		<dc:creator>S.C. Butler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4029</guid>
		<description>I think I started practicing writing in first or second grade (I don&#039;t really remember when  I started composing full sentences any more).  It&#039;s all practice, I think, unless you&#039;re one of those lucky people who can write a publishable piece in a single draft.  That ain&#039;t me, and probably never will be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I started practicing writing in first or second grade (I don&#8217;t really remember when  I started composing full sentences any more).  It&#8217;s all practice, I think, unless you&#8217;re one of those lucky people who can write a publishable piece in a single draft.  That ain&#8217;t me, and probably never will be.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Pharaoh Francis</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4027</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Pharaoh Francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4027</guid>
		<description>When I teach fiction writing, it&#039;s all based on practice, really. I hadn&#039;t thought of it in those terms though. Or maybe what I&#039;m having students do is explore and discover their strengths and try new things, which comes under the heading of practice I think. But for me, I dont&#039; tend to write what practice things. All of it is more on the lines of the RPG approach. On the other hand, I perceived some things as practice after the fact, if that makes sense. Skills build and hindsight says something was practice even though I didn&#039;t know it at the time. 

Hmmm. Interesting topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I teach fiction writing, it&#8217;s all based on practice, really. I hadn&#8217;t thought of it in those terms though. Or maybe what I&#8217;m having students do is explore and discover their strengths and try new things, which comes under the heading of practice I think. But for me, I dont&#8217; tend to write what practice things. All of it is more on the lines of the RPG approach. On the other hand, I perceived some things as practice after the fact, if that makes sense. Skills build and hindsight says something was practice even though I didn&#8217;t know it at the time. </p>
<p>Hmmm. Interesting topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Robinette Kowal</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4026</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Robinette Kowal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 16:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4026</guid>
		<description>Actually, I do practice though not as much now as I did when I started.

For instance, one technique is describing scenic locations. When I first started, I would sit down and spend a page or so describing the area that I was in without worrying about character or plot or any of those things, just the elements that I was physically noticing.

To get deep penetration third POV down, at a workshop the instructor had us write about a recent hour in our lives in third person, without concern about plot.  Again, it forced me to focus on that technique without having to worry about story.

On the weekends, (though I&#039;m out of practice now) I did a flash fiction challenge with friends where we had an hour and a half to crank out a finished story from a trigger. It forces you to think about plot without giving you time to slow down and let the inner editor panic.  It also trained me to write fast, clean first drafts.

I&#039;ve taken third person stories and re-written them as first, to see what would happen.

I&#039;ve played with authorial voice, deliberately, to see what happens if I have a visible narrator.

I was an art major and one of the things we do is learn to to hone our techniques without worrying about the art. I don&#039;t see any reason that writers can&#039;t and shouldn&#039;t do the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I do practice though not as much now as I did when I started.</p>
<p>For instance, one technique is describing scenic locations. When I first started, I would sit down and spend a page or so describing the area that I was in without worrying about character or plot or any of those things, just the elements that I was physically noticing.</p>
<p>To get deep penetration third POV down, at a workshop the instructor had us write about a recent hour in our lives in third person, without concern about plot.  Again, it forced me to focus on that technique without having to worry about story.</p>
<p>On the weekends, (though I&#8217;m out of practice now) I did a flash fiction challenge with friends where we had an hour and a half to crank out a finished story from a trigger. It forces you to think about plot without giving you time to slow down and let the inner editor panic.  It also trained me to write fast, clean first drafts.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve taken third person stories and re-written them as first, to see what would happen.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve played with authorial voice, deliberately, to see what happens if I have a visible narrator.</p>
<p>I was an art major and one of the things we do is learn to to hone our techniques without worrying about the art. I don&#8217;t see any reason that writers can&#8217;t and shouldn&#8217;t do the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Kellogg</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4025</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Kellogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 14:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/11/16/how-do-you-get-to-carnegie-hall/#comment-4025</guid>
		<description>What story? RPGs are not about what has happened, RPGs are about what is happening. They are about the now, the immediate. As your character you relate what you are doing, not what you have done. When you say, &quot;I concentrate on my &lt;i&gt;Silent Steps&lt;/i&gt; as I cross the nightingale floor.&quot; that is you in your game role doing that.

Start thinking, &quot;This is here, this is now.&quot; Start thinking, &quot;I have not yet succeeded or failed, my fate is my own.&quot; Start thinking, &quot;Before tales can be told of this it must first occur.&quot; Start thinking like that and see how your approach changes.

&lt;blockquote&gt;As the battered and bleeding corpse disappeared into the darkness of the chasm the old guide shrugged his shoulders. He turned back to his mule, and leading back up the trail he said, &quot;I keep telling them, and they keep on ignoring me; greasy fingers trumps ancient prophecy every time.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What story? RPGs are not about what has happened, RPGs are about what is happening. They are about the now, the immediate. As your character you relate what you are doing, not what you have done. When you say, &#8220;I concentrate on my <i>Silent Steps</i> as I cross the nightingale floor.&#8221; that is you in your game role doing that.</p>
<p>Start thinking, &#8220;This is here, this is now.&#8221; Start thinking, &#8220;I have not yet succeeded or failed, my fate is my own.&#8221; Start thinking, &#8220;Before tales can be told of this it must first occur.&#8221; Start thinking like that and see how your approach changes.</p>
<blockquote><p>As the battered and bleeding corpse disappeared into the darkness of the chasm the old guide shrugged his shoulders. He turned back to his mule, and leading back up the trail he said, &#8220;I keep telling them, and they keep on ignoring me; greasy fingers trumps ancient prophecy every time.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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