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	<title>Comments on: teaching fantasy</title>
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	<description>A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists</description>
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		<title>By: MonkeyT</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3525</link>
		<dc:creator>MonkeyT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 22:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3525</guid>
		<description>As much as I enjoy Donaldson&#039;s Covenant series, I agree that it&#039;s a love or hate situation, which is not good for new sci-fi/fantasy readers in this limited an environment.  I would, however consider Dan Simmon&#039;s Hyperion.  Each character&#039;s backstory nicely separates itself from the others using different storytelling styles / genres, which could make for some pretty good discussion.  And all are tied together by the combined quest they are all participating in.  The second book, if included, hints at another genre tale or two, but primarily works at a furious pace to weave all of those characters&#039; various threads back together in time for the conclusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as I enjoy Donaldson&#8217;s Covenant series, I agree that it&#8217;s a love or hate situation, which is not good for new sci-fi/fantasy readers in this limited an environment.  I would, however consider Dan Simmon&#8217;s Hyperion.  Each character&#8217;s backstory nicely separates itself from the others using different storytelling styles / genres, which could make for some pretty good discussion.  And all are tied together by the combined quest they are all participating in.  The second book, if included, hints at another genre tale or two, but primarily works at a furious pace to weave all of those characters&#8217; various threads back together in time for the conclusion.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter McLaughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3506</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter McLaughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 00:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3506</guid>
		<description>Someone mentioned Tim Powers &quot;On Stranger Tides&quot;, but I would have thought &quot;Drawing of the Dark&quot; a much more accessible, stand alone fantasy, tieing in a real life event (siege of Vienna) with some classic fantasy tropes (Fisher King etc). Plus, it has an Irish hero :-)
If juvenile fiction is a possibility, what about Alan Garner&#039;s &quot;Weirdstone of Brisingamen&quot; or &quot;Moon of Gomrath&quot; - or even &quot;The Owl Service&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone mentioned Tim Powers &#8220;On Stranger Tides&#8221;, but I would have thought &#8220;Drawing of the Dark&#8221; a much more accessible, stand alone fantasy, tieing in a real life event (siege of Vienna) with some classic fantasy tropes (Fisher King etc). Plus, it has an Irish hero <img src='http://www.sfnovelists.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
If juvenile fiction is a possibility, what about Alan Garner&#8217;s &#8220;Weirdstone of Brisingamen&#8221; or &#8220;Moon of Gomrath&#8221; &#8211; or even &#8220;The Owl Service&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Mindy Klasky</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3477</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy Klasky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 00:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3477</guid>
		<description>Coming late to the party...

What about McKillip&#039;s FORGOTTEN BEASTS OF ELD?  I haven&#039;t read it in years, but I believe it has a number of the fantasy tropes you&#039;re looking for, along with questions of responsibility and personal cost.  It&#039;s in print, in mass market, and it&#039;s a stand-alone (with the added bonus that students who are truly captured by the story have a lot more McKillip to read...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming late to the party&#8230;</p>
<p>What about McKillip&#8217;s FORGOTTEN BEASTS OF ELD?  I haven&#8217;t read it in years, but I believe it has a number of the fantasy tropes you&#8217;re looking for, along with questions of responsibility and personal cost.  It&#8217;s in print, in mass market, and it&#8217;s a stand-alone (with the added bonus that students who are truly captured by the story have a lot more McKillip to read&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: OtterB</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3475</link>
		<dc:creator>OtterB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3475</guid>
		<description>Maybe the Riddle-Master books by McKillip?  Again, a trilogy, but all three together are shorter than many single titles these days.

And you know, it&#039;s a children&#039;s book, but for an easy read that is still enjoyable and gives you a clear look at the classic motifs, you could do worse than The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the Riddle-Master books by McKillip?  Again, a trilogy, but all three together are shorter than many single titles these days.</p>
<p>And you know, it&#8217;s a children&#8217;s book, but for an easy read that is still enjoyable and gives you a clear look at the classic motifs, you could do worse than The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3474</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3474</guid>
		<description>Oh, forgot to mention in my previous post, I&#039;d be wary of going for a big epic book, since what tickles your fancy may just reinforce the impression of lengthy stodge to someone else.

Most people can grit their teeth and ignore something they don&#039;t like if they know they&#039;ll be doing other stuff after, if they get halfway through the class and realise that there&#039;s nothing else left to cover other than this doorstop of a book that they don&#039;t like or that they&#039;re just struggling with, they&#039;ll be gone for good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, forgot to mention in my previous post, I&#8217;d be wary of going for a big epic book, since what tickles your fancy may just reinforce the impression of lengthy stodge to someone else.</p>
<p>Most people can grit their teeth and ignore something they don&#8217;t like if they know they&#8217;ll be doing other stuff after, if they get halfway through the class and realise that there&#8217;s nothing else left to cover other than this doorstop of a book that they don&#8217;t like or that they&#8217;re just struggling with, they&#8217;ll be gone for good.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3473</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3473</guid>
		<description>The first three of the Wizard of Earthsea are probably only about as long as a standard fantasy novel is these days, so doing all three doesn&#039;t seem a stretch. :)

It&#039;s also very &quot;accessible&quot; because it&#039;s deceptively simple writing, while sliding thoughtful themes in under your radar without making a fuss about it.

Pawn of Prophecy by Eddings is also a very accessible book to the non-fantasy (or non-anything!) reader.

For sci-fi I&#039;d possibly suggest Pride of Chanur from CJ Cherryh, it&#039;s standalone (but there&#039;s sequels for your keener students), and while dealing with many sci-fi tropes it&#039;s also from the alien viewpoint, which is a great way to show the potential of what sci-fi allows over &quot;normal&quot; fiction, or possibly Foreigner for much the same reasons.

If you&#039;re looking for dramitised versions of Gormenghast, the BBC miniseries is an absolute must.

I&#039;d also consider looking at short-stories for sci-fi, as a genre sci-fi seems to excel at producing short-stories, it gives you something small to ease people in with and if you don&#039;t cover all the stories in a collection, the faster and keener readers will have some extras to look at as a bonus.

I recently enjoyed reading the Zima Blue short story collection from Alistair Reynolds, it covered a lot of different sorts of story with some nicely thought-provoking stories, but obviously there&#039;s thousands of amazing anthologies out there. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first three of the Wizard of Earthsea are probably only about as long as a standard fantasy novel is these days, so doing all three doesn&#8217;t seem a stretch. <img src='http://www.sfnovelists.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also very &#8220;accessible&#8221; because it&#8217;s deceptively simple writing, while sliding thoughtful themes in under your radar without making a fuss about it.</p>
<p>Pawn of Prophecy by Eddings is also a very accessible book to the non-fantasy (or non-anything!) reader.</p>
<p>For sci-fi I&#8217;d possibly suggest Pride of Chanur from CJ Cherryh, it&#8217;s standalone (but there&#8217;s sequels for your keener students), and while dealing with many sci-fi tropes it&#8217;s also from the alien viewpoint, which is a great way to show the potential of what sci-fi allows over &#8220;normal&#8221; fiction, or possibly Foreigner for much the same reasons.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re looking for dramitised versions of Gormenghast, the BBC miniseries is an absolute must.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also consider looking at short-stories for sci-fi, as a genre sci-fi seems to excel at producing short-stories, it gives you something small to ease people in with and if you don&#8217;t cover all the stories in a collection, the faster and keener readers will have some extras to look at as a bonus.</p>
<p>I recently enjoyed reading the Zima Blue short story collection from Alistair Reynolds, it covered a lot of different sorts of story with some nicely thought-provoking stories, but obviously there&#8217;s thousands of amazing anthologies out there. <img src='http://www.sfnovelists.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Diana Pharaoh Francis</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3471</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Pharaoh Francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3471</guid>
		<description>Stephen: And sort of standard fantasy in some ways is what I want. Or rather, some of the common tropes.  And I want good writing, good worldbuilding, good characters and good story. 

Kelly: I&#039;ll have a look at it. 

Alma: agreed on Bane and you know, it&#039;s been awhile since I read Mary Gentle. Need to put that on my remind to read list.

Liz: Thanks!

Anne: I like Deeds, but honestly I like the three books together and that&#039;s just going to be too long. I did teach that for an advanced class a few years ago. 

Kristi: that&#039;s what I&#039;d like to do--light a fire

Yanni: Dune is one I&#039;m thinking about showing in movie form, though I&#039;m not all that excited about my choices of movies. I&#039;m going to have to watch them again (poor me, I know, hard life).

Lara: I haven&#039;t read Ghosts in the Snow. I&#039;ll have to go have a look. I love the title.

Dotan: I&#039;ve thought about Wizards of Earthsea. My problem is that it was never a favorite of mine and I&#039;d want to do all three. Okay, I know there are more now, but the three were the first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen: And sort of standard fantasy in some ways is what I want. Or rather, some of the common tropes.  And I want good writing, good worldbuilding, good characters and good story. </p>
<p>Kelly: I&#8217;ll have a look at it. </p>
<p>Alma: agreed on Bane and you know, it&#8217;s been awhile since I read Mary Gentle. Need to put that on my remind to read list.</p>
<p>Liz: Thanks!</p>
<p>Anne: I like Deeds, but honestly I like the three books together and that&#8217;s just going to be too long. I did teach that for an advanced class a few years ago. </p>
<p>Kristi: that&#8217;s what I&#8217;d like to do&#8211;light a fire</p>
<p>Yanni: Dune is one I&#8217;m thinking about showing in movie form, though I&#8217;m not all that excited about my choices of movies. I&#8217;m going to have to watch them again (poor me, I know, hard life).</p>
<p>Lara: I haven&#8217;t read Ghosts in the Snow. I&#8217;ll have to go have a look. I love the title.</p>
<p>Dotan: I&#8217;ve thought about Wizards of Earthsea. My problem is that it was never a favorite of mine and I&#8217;d want to do all three. Okay, I know there are more now, but the three were the first.</p>
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		<title>By: Diana Pharaoh Francis</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3470</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Pharaoh Francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3470</guid>
		<description>Sam:  Thanks for the suggestions! I&#039;ve never like the Bane series though. Just didn&#039;t like the anti-hero. 

Timmy Mac: I haven&#039;t read that one in awhile. I&#039;ll have to see if I can find it.

Karen: I thought about the Gormenghast books, but I think they would be very difficult for non-genre readers to engage with, especially this quickly. I did think of trying to find the movie they did. 

Patrick: I like Green Rider. I hadn&#039;t thought about it for this. I&#039;ll have another look.

Keilexandra: Yeah, that&#039;s why I&#039;m leaning so heavily toward it.

Kes: Yeah, I read the beguilement the other day and it isn&#039;t quite it. I&#039;d forgotten about Chalion. I&#039;ll have to see if I can find my copy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam:  Thanks for the suggestions! I&#8217;ve never like the Bane series though. Just didn&#8217;t like the anti-hero. </p>
<p>Timmy Mac: I haven&#8217;t read that one in awhile. I&#8217;ll have to see if I can find it.</p>
<p>Karen: I thought about the Gormenghast books, but I think they would be very difficult for non-genre readers to engage with, especially this quickly. I did think of trying to find the movie they did. </p>
<p>Patrick: I like Green Rider. I hadn&#8217;t thought about it for this. I&#8217;ll have another look.</p>
<p>Keilexandra: Yeah, that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m leaning so heavily toward it.</p>
<p>Kes: Yeah, I read the beguilement the other day and it isn&#8217;t quite it. I&#8217;d forgotten about Chalion. I&#8217;ll have to see if I can find my copy.</p>
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		<title>By: Dotan Dimet</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3469</link>
		<dc:creator>Dotan Dimet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3469</guid>
		<description>You want something short (because there&#039;s a greater chance of it being read), old (from back when the tropes were fresh; also, older genre books used to be shorter) and in-print (easy to get copies). I&#039;d suggest Ursula Le Guin&#039;s a Wizard of Earthsea, both for its classic bits and for its untypical aspects - Good vs. Evil framed in a less banal way, a struggle that is personal rather than global and political, and world-building that avoids Middle ages Europe while still being archetypal Fantasy-land.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You want something short (because there&#8217;s a greater chance of it being read), old (from back when the tropes were fresh; also, older genre books used to be shorter) and in-print (easy to get copies). I&#8217;d suggest Ursula Le Guin&#8217;s a Wizard of Earthsea, both for its classic bits and for its untypical aspects &#8211; Good vs. Evil framed in a less banal way, a struggle that is personal rather than global and political, and world-building that avoids Middle ages Europe while still being archetypal Fantasy-land.</p>
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		<title>By: Lara</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3468</link>
		<dc:creator>Lara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/08/17/teaching-fantasy/#comment-3468</guid>
		<description>I agree with all the mentions of The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley.  I first read it at about that age, and it has been one of my most favorite books since then.  I&#039;d also recommend the first book in the Archangel Series by Sharon Shinn, or her book Mystic and Rider.  Or what about Tamara Siler Jones&#039; book Ghosts in the Snow?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with all the mentions of The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley.  I first read it at about that age, and it has been one of my most favorite books since then.  I&#8217;d also recommend the first book in the Archangel Series by Sharon Shinn, or her book Mystic and Rider.  Or what about Tamara Siler Jones&#8217; book Ghosts in the Snow?</p>
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