<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.2.1" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Publishing Lottery</title>
	<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/</link>
	<description>A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Walker</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2897</link>
		<author>Robert Walker</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2897</guid>
		<description>What a great thread. Stumbled on it a bit late, but thought I'd say "Hi!" anyway.

As with many things in life, the elusive answer to this slippery issue lies somewhere in the middle, as many have pointed out in their comments. For MOST people, it will always be a combination of talent AND hard work. And here's the thing: what's wrong with that? Those of us who understand the "hard work" side should also understand that those who cry "it's all luck!" are simply jealous, right? Envy--it ain't just a mobile phone.

And it's the same with those who say there's nothing to this "talent" malarky. They're jealous of those with "natural talent." And yes, there is such thing as natural talent. Let's see, Marlon Brando, Pavarotti, Prince, Mozart, etc. If anyone thinks that these people were not born with "something," then that little head rearing its ugly head is: insecurity. At the same time, to say that any of those people mentioned didn't work hard to get where they did is crazy.

Then again, how about Scott Lynch? Who's going to argue that he didn't, almost literally, win the lottery? But, then was his book good? Maybe it wasn't worth all the hype, but I thought it was well-written...

Lastly, look at Daniel Day-Lewis. There's no way this guy wasn't born with a natural ability. But, and this can be confirmed by reading anything about him, he probably works harder at each of his roles than anyone else in Hollywood. So, there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great thread. Stumbled on it a bit late, but thought I&#8217;d say &#8220;Hi!&#8221; anyway.</p>
<p>As with many things in life, the elusive answer to this slippery issue lies somewhere in the middle, as many have pointed out in their comments. For MOST people, it will always be a combination of talent AND hard work. And here&#8217;s the thing: what&#8217;s wrong with that? Those of us who understand the &#8220;hard work&#8221; side should also understand that those who cry &#8220;it&#8217;s all luck!&#8221; are simply jealous, right? Envy&#8211;it ain&#8217;t just a mobile phone.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s the same with those who say there&#8217;s nothing to this &#8220;talent&#8221; malarky. They&#8217;re jealous of those with &#8220;natural talent.&#8221; And yes, there is such thing as natural talent. Let&#8217;s see, Marlon Brando, Pavarotti, Prince, Mozart, etc. If anyone thinks that these people were not born with &#8220;something,&#8221; then that little head rearing its ugly head is: insecurity. At the same time, to say that any of those people mentioned didn&#8217;t work hard to get where they did is crazy.</p>
<p>Then again, how about Scott Lynch? Who&#8217;s going to argue that he didn&#8217;t, almost literally, win the lottery? But, then was his book good? Maybe it wasn&#8217;t worth all the hype, but I thought it was well-written&#8230;</p>
<p>Lastly, look at Daniel Day-Lewis. There&#8217;s no way this guy wasn&#8217;t born with a natural ability. But, and this can be confirmed by reading anything about him, he probably works harder at each of his roles than anyone else in Hollywood. So, there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cindy</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2874</link>
		<author>cindy</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 03:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2874</guid>
		<description>having just landed a book deal on my debut novel,
i have to say i *do* feel lucky in a way. i think
with all things, as you said, some people do
have a certain knack or talent for. i think with
writing, it comes a bit more natural to me. but
like with all things in life, i believe it takes a combo
of talent, luck, hard work, determination, and
timing to succeed.

there will be people who work hard all their
lives on something and never shine at it.
(for me, this would be computer science.
i took pascal back in high school due to mom's
hopes of my becoming a computer science
major, and i told her afterward, i'm just not
good at it. but i tried.)

and publishing is a crazy business.
it's very subjective--everyone has a diff
opinion. but if you are passionate about
what you write, i'd say, keep trying. 

and to be a successful published author
with many books is definitely due to hard
work and good writing. to sell a debut novel?
eh, some luck is involved. and i would hope
some good writing, too. =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>having just landed a book deal on my debut novel,<br />
i have to say i *do* feel lucky in a way. i think<br />
with all things, as you said, some people do<br />
have a certain knack or talent for. i think with<br />
writing, it comes a bit more natural to me. but<br />
like with all things in life, i believe it takes a combo<br />
of talent, luck, hard work, determination, and<br />
timing to succeed.</p>
<p>there will be people who work hard all their<br />
lives on something and never shine at it.<br />
(for me, this would be computer science.<br />
i took pascal back in high school due to mom&#8217;s<br />
hopes of my becoming a computer science<br />
major, and i told her afterward, i&#8217;m just not<br />
good at it. but i tried.)</p>
<p>and publishing is a crazy business.<br />
it&#8217;s very subjective&#8211;everyone has a diff<br />
opinion. but if you are passionate about<br />
what you write, i&#8217;d say, keep trying. </p>
<p>and to be a successful published author<br />
with many books is definitely due to hard<br />
work and good writing. to sell a debut novel?<br />
eh, some luck is involved. and i would hope<br />
some good writing, too. =)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: OtterB</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2828</link>
		<author>OtterB</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 17:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2828</guid>
		<description>One of my favorite quotes is from Louis Pasteur, on the subject of luck in scientific discovery: "Chance favors the prepared mind."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my favorite quotes is from Louis Pasteur, on the subject of luck in scientific discovery: &#8220;Chance favors the prepared mind.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2825</link>
		<author>Greg</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 14:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2825</guid>
		<description>"I’ve softened a little on the idea of talent … but you know, even if it’s there, so what?"

Talent counts, but only so far. I was talking with someone once about a certain actor who we agreed wasn't very good, but kept getting work. Having a background in film, I pointed out in comparison another actor who was most certainly talented, but rarely turns up in films these days. 

The explanation I gave was that Actor A, although not  even Golden Globe worthy even, probably showed up on time for the shoot every day, was easy to work with, and essentially conducted themselves professionally. Actor B on the other hand, I know for a fact was habitually late, if not straight up absent, extremely frustrating to work with, and hampered the production in such a way as to prevent other people from doing their jobs.

Actor A gets more work than Actor B simply because they can shoot with him without having to spend three hours talking him out of his trailer. Same principal with professional writing applies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve softened a little on the idea of talent … but you know, even if it’s there, so what?&#8221;</p>
<p>Talent counts, but only so far. I was talking with someone once about a certain actor who we agreed wasn&#8217;t very good, but kept getting work. Having a background in film, I pointed out in comparison another actor who was most certainly talented, but rarely turns up in films these days. </p>
<p>The explanation I gave was that Actor A, although not  even Golden Globe worthy even, probably showed up on time for the shoot every day, was easy to work with, and essentially conducted themselves professionally. Actor B on the other hand, I know for a fact was habitually late, if not straight up absent, extremely frustrating to work with, and hampered the production in such a way as to prevent other people from doing their jobs.</p>
<p>Actor A gets more work than Actor B simply because they can shoot with him without having to spend three hours talking him out of his trailer. Same principal with professional writing applies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: S.L. Farrell</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2824</link>
		<author>S.L. Farrell</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 12:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2824</guid>
		<description>Jim -- I have a 'formula for success" essay which touches on this idea (because I've had a lot of students over the years who seemed to believe that a) publishing was a lottery, and b) it was all about Capital-T Talent.  The essay's at http://www.farrellworlds.com/formula.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim &#8212; I have a &#8216;formula for success&#8221; essay which touches on this idea (because I&#8217;ve had a lot of students over the years who seemed to believe that a) publishing was a lottery, and b) it was all about Capital-T Talent.  The essay&#8217;s at <a href="http://www.farrellworlds.com/formula.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.farrellworlds.com/formula.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kate Elliott</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2823</link>
		<author>Kate Elliott</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 22:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2823</guid>
		<description>Di,yeah, if only I could be a hack like Dickens and Shakespeare!   Heh.


Talent and inborn desire (or inclination) are, I think, slightly different things.  I tend to tell my kids to find the thing they love to do so much they are willing to work really hard at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Di,yeah, if only I could be a hack like Dickens and Shakespeare!   Heh.</p>
<p>Talent and inborn desire (or inclination) are, I think, slightly different things.  I tend to tell my kids to find the thing they love to do so much they are willing to work really hard at it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mpe</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2820</link>
		<author>mpe</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 11:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2820</guid>
		<description>&#62; All the guitar players who had talent dropped out long ago when it became hard work.

I think there's a lot of truth in this. If you're talented, you probably play (or write) because you enjoy it and it comes out pretty well. Why put yourself through a long boring slog just to get a little bit "better" (i.e. more marketable) and make a risible amount of money?

For the slog to be worthwhile, there has to be some kind of reward.  If you started out good, you won't improve in proportion to the work you're putting in, and you've already had plenty of validation. So why do it?

There can be reasons, of course. Pride, stubbornness, a sense of challenge. But I think it's harder to stay motivated this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; All the guitar players who had talent dropped out long ago when it became hard work.</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a lot of truth in this. If you&#8217;re talented, you probably play (or write) because you enjoy it and it comes out pretty well. Why put yourself through a long boring slog just to get a little bit &#8220;better&#8221; (i.e. more marketable) and make a risible amount of money?</p>
<p>For the slog to be worthwhile, there has to be some kind of reward.  If you started out good, you won&#8217;t improve in proportion to the work you&#8217;re putting in, and you&#8217;ve already had plenty of validation. So why do it?</p>
<p>There can be reasons, of course. Pride, stubbornness, a sense of challenge. But I think it&#8217;s harder to stay motivated this way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Buchheit</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2818</link>
		<author>Steve Buchheit</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 23:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2818</guid>
		<description>Oh jeeze, I hope it's not about talent. I'm screwed then.

So when I was in high school, I played guitar. I wasn't the best, or the most natural. Several other kids were really good. And I beat out every single one to play in the Stage Band. I worked hard to do it, practiced until my fingers were numb. And now when I go to concerts for local bands, the one thing I notice or talk about is how those people playing never felt they had talent either. They all had to work hard at it. All the guitar players who had talent dropped out long ago when it became hard work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh jeeze, I hope it&#8217;s not about talent. I&#8217;m screwed then.</p>
<p>So when I was in high school, I played guitar. I wasn&#8217;t the best, or the most natural. Several other kids were really good. And I beat out every single one to play in the Stage Band. I worked hard to do it, practiced until my fingers were numb. And now when I go to concerts for local bands, the one thing I notice or talk about is how those people playing never felt they had talent either. They all had to work hard at it. All the guitar players who had talent dropped out long ago when it became hard work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diana Pharaoh Francis</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2815</link>
		<author>Diana Pharaoh Francis</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 16:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2815</guid>
		<description>Yes Jim, you're a hack. But the nice thing is, you're in good company. So was Dickens, so what Shakespeare . . . .  Hee!  

Seriously though, what's that saying? Success is when luck meets preparation?  Something like that? Yeah, there's a certain amount of luck--that your book hits the right editor at the right time. But the rest is all perspiration. That you've written a good book and that you understand the publishing process enough to submit it professionally. 

I'm checking in from Miscon, so must slink off before my connection dies again and before the next panel. Happy weekend!

Di</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Jim, you&#8217;re a hack. But the nice thing is, you&#8217;re in good company. So was Dickens, so what Shakespeare . . . .  Hee!  </p>
<p>Seriously though, what&#8217;s that saying? Success is when luck meets preparation?  Something like that? Yeah, there&#8217;s a certain amount of luck&#8211;that your book hits the right editor at the right time. But the rest is all perspiration. That you&#8217;ve written a good book and that you understand the publishing process enough to submit it professionally. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m checking in from Miscon, so must slink off before my connection dies again and before the next panel. Happy weekend!</p>
<p>Di</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kent Pollard</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2814</link>
		<author>Kent Pollard</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 14:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/05/24/the-publishing-lottery/#comment-2814</guid>
		<description>I think there really is a lottery involved, but it is only a portion of the process. We have to bee good writers, literate, intelligent, and determined. But at the end of the day, there is the same lottery aspect that would-be actors face as they travel from audition to audition.

Success is dependent on getting our product in front of the right editor, at the time when they are receptive to what we have to offer. The best novel about giants in the world isn't going to sell to an editor who is having a bad day and has it stuck in his head that he needs a story with lilliputians in it. Editors have to make personal choices constantly and anything that involves a human making a decision is, to some extent, a bit of a lottery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there really is a lottery involved, but it is only a portion of the process. We have to bee good writers, literate, intelligent, and determined. But at the end of the day, there is the same lottery aspect that would-be actors face as they travel from audition to audition.</p>
<p>Success is dependent on getting our product in front of the right editor, at the time when they are receptive to what we have to offer. The best novel about giants in the world isn&#8217;t going to sell to an editor who is having a bad day and has it stuck in his head that he needs a story with lilliputians in it. Editors have to make personal choices constantly and anything that involves a human making a decision is, to some extent, a bit of a lottery.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
