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	<title>Comments on: Huh? Or Why Characters Do What They Do</title>
	<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/</link>
	<description>A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: S.C. Butler</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2393</link>
		<author>S.C. Butler</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2393</guid>
		<description>Most movies seem to have given up on realistic character motivation about the same time they became irrevocably focused on the viewing habits of 14 year old boys.  TVs a little better these days, but even good shows like Battlestar drive me crazy the way they often insist on characters not acting in their own self-interest in the interest of increasing the drama.

Don't get me going about Lost.

Melinda Snodgrass has a great post on why TV and film writers do the things they do at her website - http://www.melindasnodgrass.com/musings/.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most movies seem to have given up on realistic character motivation about the same time they became irrevocably focused on the viewing habits of 14 year old boys.  TVs a little better these days, but even good shows like Battlestar drive me crazy the way they often insist on characters not acting in their own self-interest in the interest of increasing the drama.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me going about Lost.</p>
<p>Melinda Snodgrass has a great post on why TV and film writers do the things they do at her website - <a href="http://www.melindasnodgrass.com/musings/." rel="nofollow">http://www.melindasnodgrass.com/musings/.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2388</link>
		<author>Sam</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2388</guid>
		<description>Basically: entertainment vs realism.

Entertainment wins out when you want to be entertained. Realism can make the entertainment stronger, but if the two are in conflict it's the entertainment that counts.

That isn't to say that if you find realism biting a hole in your entertaining plot you shouldn't look for a third way that has both realism and entertainment - in fact the constraints of realism can make you more inventive and come up with something that's more interesting and more entertaining than your original idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basically: entertainment vs realism.</p>
<p>Entertainment wins out when you want to be entertained. Realism can make the entertainment stronger, but if the two are in conflict it&#8217;s the entertainment that counts.</p>
<p>That isn&#8217;t to say that if you find realism biting a hole in your entertaining plot you shouldn&#8217;t look for a third way that has both realism and entertainment - in fact the constraints of realism can make you more inventive and come up with something that&#8217;s more interesting and more entertaining than your original idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Wester Newton</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2384</link>
		<author>Karen Wester Newton</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 23:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2384</guid>
		<description>I totally agree.  But, the thing is, if the story gives me something good enough, I don't care.  I love the movie THE FIFTH ELEMENT even though it makes no sense.  There are plot holes I could drive an SUV through, and Bruce Willis is a hero with a touch of jerk in him (all he wants is a woman who's perfect.  Is that too much to ask?).  And when he finds Ms. Perfect, Leeloo, the character played by Milla Jovovich, she can learn English and martial arts in minutes but she falls apart in a crisis until he tells her he loves her.  

But it is so damn fun to watch!  I love the different aliens, I love Gary Oldman chewing the hi-tech scenery as Mr. Zorg, I love the scene where a flying junk serves Bruce Willis a hot lunch in his apartment.  I must have seen that movie at least 6 times.

Maybe if the book or movie is funny, it's easier to get away with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree.  But, the thing is, if the story gives me something good enough, I don&#8217;t care.  I love the movie THE FIFTH ELEMENT even though it makes no sense.  There are plot holes I could drive an SUV through, and Bruce Willis is a hero with a touch of jerk in him (all he wants is a woman who&#8217;s perfect.  Is that too much to ask?).  And when he finds Ms. Perfect, Leeloo, the character played by Milla Jovovich, she can learn English and martial arts in minutes but she falls apart in a crisis until he tells her he loves her.  </p>
<p>But it is so damn fun to watch!  I love the different aliens, I love Gary Oldman chewing the hi-tech scenery as Mr. Zorg, I love the scene where a flying junk serves Bruce Willis a hot lunch in his apartment.  I must have seen that movie at least 6 times.</p>
<p>Maybe if the book or movie is funny, it&#8217;s easier to get away with?</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Lowe</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2382</link>
		<author>Cameron Lowe</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2382</guid>
		<description>I'm a huge fan of shitacular movies like this. I must have recorded over fifty or sixty movies on the Sci-Fi channel alone, just because the stuff they air is almost always unbelievably terrible.  The worst (and therefore best, in an odd way) movie I've ever had the dubious pleasure of watching was a little made-for-TV gem called Dracula 3000, starring none other than Casper van Dien, Tony Lister, Udo Kier, and - wait for it - Coolio.  Now that right there should tell you something.  Any movie with Rico from Starship Troopers and a rapper long since past relevancy is a recipe for brilliance.

Here's why it was amazing.  Not only was there a complete lack of characterization, but the plot was devised by a bunch of monkeys armed with crack pipes.  Apparently, a spaceship captained by Dien and his crew encounters another ship out in the darkness of space (in the Transylvanian system, no less), where they encounter Orlock, a vampire.  Okaaaay.  Skip forward to the end (trust me, spoilers are a blessing for this hunk of flaming dogshit).  Casper van Dien, touted as the ship's savior the entire movie, is turned into a vampire for all of three seconds.  Orlock's arm is neatly sliced off in a door (not crushed, sliced like pepperoni)... and best of all, the female lead in the entire movie reveals herself in the last few minutes to be a robot designed for sexual pleasure and runs off with Tony Lister to practice the art of making babies.  Moments later, the ship hits a star.  Boom.  Roll credits.

I wish I was joking.

Anyways, characterization.  At no point in the movie did any character have an ounce of likability.  Back stories were created and disposed of (again, Dien was supposed to be a savior of sorts, even being named Van Helsing, and then he kicked the bucket in a most unspectacular way).  Orlock's mind tricks disappear three-fourths of the way through the movie.  Tony Lister goes from angry bear to perveted teenager.  Coolio... well, his character was some sort of take on what a cool guy in the year 3000 would be like, except he just came off as a coked-out former rapper looking for a quick paycheck.

See also: Pterodactyl, Return of the Living Dead (the Sci-Fi ones are atrocious and mind-numbing), The Plague, and just about anything on Sci-Fi that is movie-length.  The granddaddy of them all is Alien Apocalypse, starring the man, the myth, the legend Bruce Campbell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a huge fan of shitacular movies like this. I must have recorded over fifty or sixty movies on the Sci-Fi channel alone, just because the stuff they air is almost always unbelievably terrible.  The worst (and therefore best, in an odd way) movie I&#8217;ve ever had the dubious pleasure of watching was a little made-for-TV gem called Dracula 3000, starring none other than Casper van Dien, Tony Lister, Udo Kier, and - wait for it - Coolio.  Now that right there should tell you something.  Any movie with Rico from Starship Troopers and a rapper long since past relevancy is a recipe for brilliance.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s why it was amazing.  Not only was there a complete lack of characterization, but the plot was devised by a bunch of monkeys armed with crack pipes.  Apparently, a spaceship captained by Dien and his crew encounters another ship out in the darkness of space (in the Transylvanian system, no less), where they encounter Orlock, a vampire.  Okaaaay.  Skip forward to the end (trust me, spoilers are a blessing for this hunk of flaming dogshit).  Casper van Dien, touted as the ship&#8217;s savior the entire movie, is turned into a vampire for all of three seconds.  Orlock&#8217;s arm is neatly sliced off in a door (not crushed, sliced like pepperoni)&#8230; and best of all, the female lead in the entire movie reveals herself in the last few minutes to be a robot designed for sexual pleasure and runs off with Tony Lister to practice the art of making babies.  Moments later, the ship hits a star.  Boom.  Roll credits.</p>
<p>I wish I was joking.</p>
<p>Anyways, characterization.  At no point in the movie did any character have an ounce of likability.  Back stories were created and disposed of (again, Dien was supposed to be a savior of sorts, even being named Van Helsing, and then he kicked the bucket in a most unspectacular way).  Orlock&#8217;s mind tricks disappear three-fourths of the way through the movie.  Tony Lister goes from angry bear to perveted teenager.  Coolio&#8230; well, his character was some sort of take on what a cool guy in the year 3000 would be like, except he just came off as a coked-out former rapper looking for a quick paycheck.</p>
<p>See also: Pterodactyl, Return of the Living Dead (the Sci-Fi ones are atrocious and mind-numbing), The Plague, and just about anything on Sci-Fi that is movie-length.  The granddaddy of them all is Alien Apocalypse, starring the man, the myth, the legend Bruce Campbell.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2380</link>
		<author>Greg</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfnovelists.com/2008/04/03/huh-or-why-characters-do-what-they-do/#comment-2380</guid>
		<description>My biggest character issue, which can show up in any and all fiction, is when a plot is driven by a character stuck between two possible extremeties for a choice and no one will mention at all any possibilities outside of that. My example of such: Kevin Smith's film Chasing Amy ceters around the relationship between a straight man who falls in love with a lesbian, who then falls in love with him. There is much discussion of "Loving someone for who they are, not there gender," the myth that "all lesbians just need a good man," is debated and discredited, and much pain and consternation when it is learned that the Lesbian character had in fact had sex with men before coming out as a lesbian.

If one character had said the word "Bisexual" at anypoint in the film, there is no dramatic character motivation past the forty-five minute mark.

This problem almost always seems to be tied in with a political slant, usually "We can't go with choice A because that would invalidate choice B in all cases." So many stories would become more interesting in my opinion were someone to say "Well, why CAN'T you have it both ways?" or "What about this third option?" 

You see a lot of this in movies where a parent has to chose between a job that will pay well and spending time with their family, usually ending with the parent choosing their children over money, which is rediculous, because it presumes that kids don't get sick, out grow clothes and need braces every. seventeen. days.

Now if you can give me a good solid character or plot reason WHY there can't be a choice outside of either/or, that's another matter entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My biggest character issue, which can show up in any and all fiction, is when a plot is driven by a character stuck between two possible extremeties for a choice and no one will mention at all any possibilities outside of that. My example of such: Kevin Smith&#8217;s film Chasing Amy ceters around the relationship between a straight man who falls in love with a lesbian, who then falls in love with him. There is much discussion of &#8220;Loving someone for who they are, not there gender,&#8221; the myth that &#8220;all lesbians just need a good man,&#8221; is debated and discredited, and much pain and consternation when it is learned that the Lesbian character had in fact had sex with men before coming out as a lesbian.</p>
<p>If one character had said the word &#8220;Bisexual&#8221; at anypoint in the film, there is no dramatic character motivation past the forty-five minute mark.</p>
<p>This problem almost always seems to be tied in with a political slant, usually &#8220;We can&#8217;t go with choice A because that would invalidate choice B in all cases.&#8221; So many stories would become more interesting in my opinion were someone to say &#8220;Well, why CAN&#8217;T you have it both ways?&#8221; or &#8220;What about this third option?&#8221; </p>
<p>You see a lot of this in movies where a parent has to chose between a job that will pay well and spending time with their family, usually ending with the parent choosing their children over money, which is rediculous, because it presumes that kids don&#8217;t get sick, out grow clothes and need braces every. seventeen. days.</p>
<p>Now if you can give me a good solid character or plot reason WHY there can&#8217;t be a choice outside of either/or, that&#8217;s another matter entirely.</p>
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