Comments on: Secrets of a Good Villain http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/ A mutual support group for SF/F Novelists Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:29:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Sam Walker http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-3766 Sam Walker Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:50:04 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-3766 What makes a good villain, thats the question you all want to know well here it is. A good villain is someone who will never give up, someone who will kill enemies, friends and family to get what he/she desires. Someone who will never surrender to anybody. What makes a good villain, thats the question you all want to know well here it is. A good villain is someone who will never give up, someone who will kill enemies, friends and family to get what he/she desires. Someone who will never surrender to anybody.

]]> By: jake http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-3278 jake Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:17:53 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-3278 i think one of the best villians ever is The Green Goblin. he is a realstic character, and makes you feel sorry for him towards the end. i realy liked him. i think one of the best villians ever is The Green Goblin. he is a realstic character, and makes you feel sorry for him towards the end. i realy liked him.

]]> By: Slade http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-2775 Slade Sun, 18 May 2008 21:49:23 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-2775 I have to say that perhapes one of the greatest villians/heroes I've ever seen is Light Yagami of the anime/manga "Death Note." He finds a nootbook dropped by a death god and with it he can kill anyone he cooses as long as he knows their name and face. So, he decides to use this power to kill all the criminals of the world. But as it goes on, he becomes more sadistic, claiming himself to be the new god of the world and working to remove anyone who opposes him as well as criuminals an d sociaties burdens. What makes him so complex is his desire to better humanity and sociaty in general to make the world a better place for everyone. But he's still killing thousands of people and developing a god complex while flanting his power. I have to say that perhapes one of the greatest villians/heroes I’ve ever seen is Light Yagami of the anime/manga “Death Note.” He finds a nootbook dropped by a death god and with it he can kill anyone he cooses as long as he knows their name and face. So, he decides to use this power to kill all the criminals of the world.

But as it goes on, he becomes more sadistic, claiming himself to be the new god of the world and working to remove anyone who opposes him as well as criuminals an d sociaties burdens.

What makes him so complex is his desire to better humanity and sociaty in general to make the world a better place for everyone. But he’s still killing thousands of people and developing a god complex while flanting his power.

]]> By: NewGuyDave http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-1633 NewGuyDave Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:50:23 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-1633 I have always been attracted to anti-hero type protagonists who struggle with either right and wrong or some other moral dilemma. As for villains I always have liked a complex villain. The "understandable villain" who is less like Sauron and more like a guy you could know from Jim's blog (kidding). But really, how many pure evil villains can we put up with and be terrified by until people realize that the really creepy Jeff Dahlmer-types shopped at the drug store as we did. In the novel I am working on right now I am trying to make at least one of of antagonists a misled villain and my main protagonist somebody who crosses the line to get the job done. I love gray areas. Dave Fortier I have always been attracted to anti-hero type protagonists who struggle with either right and wrong or some other moral dilemma.
As for villains I always have liked a complex villain. The “understandable villain” who is less like Sauron and more like a guy you could know from Jim’s blog (kidding). But really, how many pure evil villains can we put up with and be terrified by until people realize that the really creepy Jeff Dahlmer-types shopped at the drug store as we did.
In the novel I am working on right now I am trying to make at least one of of antagonists a misled villain and my main protagonist somebody who crosses the line to get the job done.
I love gray areas.
Dave Fortier

]]> By: Phoenix Rising » Blog Archive » Linkblog Digest 4 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-256 Phoenix Rising » Blog Archive » Linkblog Digest 4 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:31:01 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-256 [...] Over at SF Novelists, Jim Hines talks about what makes a good villain. [...] […] Over at SF Novelists, Jim Hines talks about what makes a good villain. […]

]]> By: Mitch Wagner http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-194 Mitch Wagner Sat, 25 Aug 2007 18:38:37 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-194 Kneel before Zod! I just wanted to say that. Kneel before Zod!

I just wanted to say that.

]]> By: David Louis Edelman http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-191 David Louis Edelman Sat, 25 Aug 2007 15:46:28 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-191 I agree with you, Jim. But I'm irked less by one-dimensional villains than I am by one-dimensional heroes. In many stories, the villain is just a cypher or symbol for the protagonist's own shortcomings. We never really learn anything about Sauron, for instance, because his motivations are rather irrelevant to the story. And Darth Vader (in the original trilogy) is little more than an object lesson for what will eventually happen to Luke if he doesn't get his shit together. If I read a story where the hero's only conflict is whether he/she can get his/her task accomplished in time, I yawn. Give me George R.R. Martin's Westeros any day, where all the heroes are conflicted. I agree with you, Jim. But I’m irked less by one-dimensional villains than I am by one-dimensional heroes. In many stories, the villain is just a cypher or symbol for the protagonist’s own shortcomings. We never really learn anything about Sauron, for instance, because his motivations are rather irrelevant to the story. And Darth Vader (in the original trilogy) is little more than an object lesson for what will eventually happen to Luke if he doesn’t get his shit together.

If I read a story where the hero’s only conflict is whether he/she can get his/her task accomplished in time, I yawn. Give me George R.R. Martin’s Westeros any day, where all the heroes are conflicted.

]]> By: Diana Pharaoh Francis http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-182 Diana Pharaoh Francis Fri, 24 Aug 2007 16:01:39 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-182 The book I just finished focuses on a rather unlikeable character who goes through a transformation and becomes someone you do like. But the hard part was really keeping interest long enough to keep a reader going. But you're right. Conflicted people, people with baggage, are interesting. What did Tolstoy say? Happy families resemble each other, but unhappy families are unhappy in unique ways? Same with characters. Unhappy characters (villainous characters) are unhappy (or villainous) for their own particular and unique reasons. The book I just finished focuses on a rather unlikeable character who goes through a transformation and becomes someone you do like. But the hard part was really keeping interest long enough to keep a reader going. But you’re right. Conflicted people, people with baggage, are interesting. What did Tolstoy say? Happy families resemble each other, but unhappy families are unhappy in unique ways? Same with characters. Unhappy characters (villainous characters) are unhappy (or villainous) for their own particular and unique reasons.

]]> By: Jenna Black http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-181 Jenna Black Fri, 24 Aug 2007 12:49:13 +0000 http://www.sfnovelists.com/2007/08/24/secrets-of-a-good-villain/#comment-181 I love a complex villain myself (as well as a flawed hero). The hero of my upcoming Shadows on the Soul could probably be a villain in other peoples' books. (He was at least an antagonist in the previous book, if not exactly a villain.) My favorite villain ever comes from a romance, not sf. (It's not even a paranormal romance, but closer to a romantic comedy.) It's Bill, from Jennifer Cruisie's Crazy for You. Cruisie does an amazing job of writing from his increasingly twisted POV. He is absolutely convinced he's right about everything, and if he could just get the heroine to see sense, all would be right with both his world and hers. Even better, he starts as being a mildly irritating "normal" person, and the reader gets to watch as he falls apart after the heroine leaves him. His attempts to get her back get progressively crazier and more dangerous, but you can't help but feel a little sorry for him. Even if you're not a big romance fan, I'd highly recommend this book to anyone who enjoys complex villains. I love a complex villain myself (as well as a flawed hero). The hero of my upcoming Shadows on the Soul could probably be a villain in other peoples’ books. (He was at least an antagonist in the previous book, if not exactly a villain.)

My favorite villain ever comes from a romance, not sf. (It’s not even a paranormal romance, but closer to a romantic comedy.) It’s Bill, from Jennifer Cruisie’s Crazy for You. Cruisie does an amazing job of writing from his increasingly twisted POV. He is absolutely convinced he’s right about everything, and if he could just get the heroine to see sense, all would be right with both his world and hers. Even better, he starts as being a mildly irritating “normal” person, and the reader gets to watch as he falls apart after the heroine leaves him. His attempts to get her back get progressively crazier and more dangerous, but you can’t help but feel a little sorry for him.

Even if you’re not a big romance fan, I’d highly recommend this book to anyone who enjoys complex villains.

]]>